Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

1952 - 1968, M38A1, M170, questions, discussions, regarding anything related to the M38a1 series.
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George in NH
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Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

Post by George in NH » Mon May 10, 2010 3:57 pm

Hi All,
I am seeking pics or diagrams of the proper installation of the top bow rod set and the mp50 for my
M38A1. This is new territory for me and the vendor I purchased NOS and repro parts from said it is just common sense.
Well, I prefer written instructions or diagrams as I cannot make heads or tails of these parts. Thanks in advance!!
George in NH


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Re: Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

Post by USMC M38A1 » Mon May 10, 2010 6:16 pm

weebee webbing has a good picture of the top bow installation with all rods on their web site.It is under the M38a1 products it is highlighted as drawings.By the way who was the vendor who said it was common sense so I stay away from them lol.

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Re: Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

Post by Cuz » Mon May 10, 2010 7:19 pm

George,
Go visit our http://www.willysmjeeps.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; web site and forums for more detailed answers. I have most of the radio system install drawings there.

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Re: Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

Post by SB5477 » Mon May 10, 2010 11:28 pm

I've made the bow to windshield rods according to the drawings above for my M38A1. The front bow is higher now than the rear, same as on these pictures, especially on the second pic. Is that normal? On pictures of other M38A1 the rear bow sits a touch higher it also looks better that way. Maybe the measurements are off a little bit?

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Re: Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue May 11, 2010 3:31 am

Your rods may be too long.
I have a NOS OEM set of rods on my M-38A1 and will measure the length. The position of the Side Curtain Rod in the photo appears to be a bit off. The position of the windshield also has a bearing on the proper position of the bows, rails and rods. Some windshields lean back more than they would when new because of being loose on the hinges due to constant motion from years of use.
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Re: Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

Post by SB5477 » Wed May 12, 2010 2:33 pm

Thanks Ben,
Could you measure those rods and post the sizes here, please?

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Re: Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

Post by D Pizzoferrato » Wed May 12, 2010 4:00 pm

Those dimensions actually came from an NOS rod set. That being said, it's been shown time and time again over the years, that oftentimes items are surplussed out by the government due to unacceptable deviations from the contract specifications. I recently had a conversation about a possible 2" discrepancy in what the drawing shows and the reality of the fit. As there are plenty of NOS parts out there that are made wrong, I'll have no grief if these dimensions are wrong.

If we can reach a concensus on length, I'll change the drawing.
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Re: Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed May 12, 2010 4:50 pm

One big factor is the wear and tear of the windshields on the M-38A1/M-170. They can get floppy and result in pounded weatherstrip and the sheetmetal comprising the bottom of the windshield frame. Also, the hinges wear and get distorted. Not many 60 year old M-38A1 Jeeps are intact in this respect.
I am lucky as my jeep has been subject to minimum use and wear, and gets driven in a manner that avoids rough use and trail rides, it has been a Sunday driver since new.
The only Rods I consider are correct are the RAIL (Windshield to Bow) WO-680437. the ones I have are from Jeep factory stock back in the late 60s, I have two sets. The OAL is 39 1/4", and the center of the Side curtan Rod is 12 1/2" frpm the outside of the bend at the rear. There were many GI issue replacement rods, not all were from Willys stock and could vary as much as 1/2" in OAL and most had a sliding clip for the side curtain rod clamped in place with a #10 screw. I can send Weebee pics of the genuine factory rod and their special features . The OEM rods have raised distortions stamp onto them to prevent the rods from being inserted into the front brackets, holes drilled into them for the retaining chain and clips and flat metal stock bent into a"U" and welded to the rails for retaining the Side Curtain Rods in place.
Many of the repro rods are close but not 100% spec.
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Re: Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu May 13, 2010 6:32 am

I have pics of an OEM Willys factory 680437 Rail. They are made different than any of the replacements available. I also have a pile of repros and GI replacements, no two measure the same. Have had these since the mid 60s since I bought them from Jeep and installed them NOS a couple years ago with NOS Bows. My windshield fit is still as it should be. The distance from the inner edge at the top of the windshield frame to the center of the front bow is 36".
Personally, I have not had any canvas fitting issues on the Jeeps as I have been lucky to have a 45+ year supply of NOS GI issue Canvas and all of the correct OEM hardware involved.
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Re: Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu May 13, 2010 7:17 am

SB5477 wrote:Thanks Ben,
Could you measure those rods and post the sizes here, please?
Will email you a few pics tonite If I get the chance.
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Re: Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

Post by Mike Seymour » Thu May 13, 2010 12:23 pm

After having a conversation with Dave P. awhile back, we decided the measurement you are looking for is 37.75" rather than 39.75". Mine are cut to 37.75 to the center of the bends and they fit just right. I like to think it was a typo.... :D
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Re: Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu May 13, 2010 4:37 pm

What are all the 39 1/4" types salvaged from surplus M-38A1's for?
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Re: Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

Post by Mike Seymour » Thu May 13, 2010 6:14 pm

Ben Dover wrote:What are all the 39 1/4" types salvaged from surplus M-38A1's for?

I don't know, Ben...cut 'em off to 37.75" and you make a killing. :D
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Re: Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu May 13, 2010 6:51 pm

Use the ends to spin my hobby horse on. :wink:
I did take some good pics of the OEM rod to show what Willys did that the other supplliers did not do.
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Re: Top Bow Rod Set/MP50 Install???

Post by Mike Seymour » Thu May 13, 2010 7:43 pm

Ben Dover wrote:Use the ends to spin my hobby horse on. :wink:
I did take some good pics of the OEM rod to show what Willys did that the other supplliers did not do.

Be careful, I hold the patents on most of that hobby horse stuff. :?
Supposed to be sunny tomorrow...I'll take some picks of these I made to fit one of Dave's tops and doors. I think I had an issue on the location I welded the washers to hold the upright rods. I'll get measurements on those too.
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