tow bars
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tow bars
Hi
there has been much discussion about the merits of towing you jeep with a tandem tow bar.
Some have even stated that the tow bar and its mounting points are not strong enough to with stand towing the jeep.
What do you think puts more stress on the frame and tow bar? Flat towing the jeep, that weighs aprrox 2500 pounds.
Or the stress of 2 jeeps hooked together, both engines and drivelines running towing a very heavy piece of artilery?
The tow bars were made to withstand heavy stresses and use. The simple act of flat towing puts much less stress on the bars than they werre designed for.
Ernie
there has been much discussion about the merits of towing you jeep with a tandem tow bar.
Some have even stated that the tow bar and its mounting points are not strong enough to with stand towing the jeep.
What do you think puts more stress on the frame and tow bar? Flat towing the jeep, that weighs aprrox 2500 pounds.
Or the stress of 2 jeeps hooked together, both engines and drivelines running towing a very heavy piece of artilery?
The tow bars were made to withstand heavy stresses and use. The simple act of flat towing puts much less stress on the bars than they werre designed for.
Ernie
Rip Dad 1/22/24 to 12/21/11
I will always love and miss you.
Ernie Baals MVPA 104C and 3104, AACA, SJC MVPA
Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government
that requires every citizen to prove
they are insured……but not everyone
must prove they are a citizen”
I will always love and miss you.
Ernie Baals MVPA 104C and 3104, AACA, SJC MVPA
Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government
that requires every citizen to prove
they are insured……but not everyone
must prove they are a citizen”
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Re: tow bars
I've towed Jeeps for over 50 years using military and civilian towbars of all types, have towed Jeeps with Jeeps and with M-62 Wreckers, haven't pulled one apart yet.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
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Re: tow bars
Hi
I would not pay $1500 for a tow bar..
But the ones we have on our jeeps we have had for years, we got the from Sarafans in the late 70s.
I believe they were either $25 or $50 each. nos in a crate.
Ernie
I would not pay $1500 for a tow bar..
But the ones we have on our jeeps we have had for years, we got the from Sarafans in the late 70s.
I believe they were either $25 or $50 each. nos in a crate.
Ernie
Rip Dad 1/22/24 to 12/21/11
I will always love and miss you.
Ernie Baals MVPA 104C and 3104, AACA, SJC MVPA
Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government
that requires every citizen to prove
they are insured……but not everyone
must prove they are a citizen”
I will always love and miss you.
Ernie Baals MVPA 104C and 3104, AACA, SJC MVPA
Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government
that requires every citizen to prove
they are insured……but not everyone
must prove they are a citizen”
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Re: tow bars
Hi
You don't have to undo the frame horns to put on a tow bar. Unbolt the bumper, 4 bolts. bolt on the tow bar 4 bolts.
No welding, no grinding, no etc, all the painting that needs to be done is to paint the tow bar.
Have you ever looked at a properly installed tandem tow bar ona WWII jeep?
Even on the M38 and M38A1s you do not even have to remove the bumper, it is a spacer kit that bolts right on.
Paul, just because you do not like them is no reason to crucify those if us that do.
If you do not want one on your jeep fine. but again, it is not civilized to attack those that happen to like them.
And, just as a note all my tagged and running WII vehicles, 2 GPWs, 1 MB , a WC4 a WC53 aWC52 and my CCKW before u sold it all had water buckets , My staff car, my CUCV and M880 do not have water buckets, although i could put one on the water can in the back of the M1009
And they all have driven to shows under thier own power as well as being trailered and flat towed depending on how far the show was, what kind of roads and how many i was taking to each show.
Lighten up, opinions are like, well you know,
Ernie
You don't have to undo the frame horns to put on a tow bar. Unbolt the bumper, 4 bolts. bolt on the tow bar 4 bolts.
No welding, no grinding, no etc, all the painting that needs to be done is to paint the tow bar.
Have you ever looked at a properly installed tandem tow bar ona WWII jeep?
Even on the M38 and M38A1s you do not even have to remove the bumper, it is a spacer kit that bolts right on.
Paul, just because you do not like them is no reason to crucify those if us that do.
If you do not want one on your jeep fine. but again, it is not civilized to attack those that happen to like them.
And, just as a note all my tagged and running WII vehicles, 2 GPWs, 1 MB , a WC4 a WC53 aWC52 and my CCKW before u sold it all had water buckets , My staff car, my CUCV and M880 do not have water buckets, although i could put one on the water can in the back of the M1009
And they all have driven to shows under thier own power as well as being trailered and flat towed depending on how far the show was, what kind of roads and how many i was taking to each show.
Lighten up, opinions are like, well you know,
Ernie
Rip Dad 1/22/24 to 12/21/11
I will always love and miss you.
Ernie Baals MVPA 104C and 3104, AACA, SJC MVPA
Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government
that requires every citizen to prove
they are insured……but not everyone
must prove they are a citizen”
I will always love and miss you.
Ernie Baals MVPA 104C and 3104, AACA, SJC MVPA
Fathom the hypocrisy of a Government
that requires every citizen to prove
they are insured……but not everyone
must prove they are a citizen”
- jklier
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Re: tow bars
My jeep had one on it when I bought it. The previous owner gave me the bumper as well but I decided to keep the bar on for the following reason.
I've put a receiver at the front of my trailer with a pintle hitch in it. When I load the jeep I attach the tandem bar to the pintle on the trailer and then secure it in the back with ratchet straps. I can have the jeep loaded and secured in less than 5 minutes.
I've put a receiver at the front of my trailer with a pintle hitch in it. When I load the jeep I attach the tandem bar to the pintle on the trailer and then secure it in the back with ratchet straps. I can have the jeep loaded and secured in less than 5 minutes.
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Re: tow bars
and what was that about winches being useless.........................shut up.
- tamnalan
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Re: tow bars
Depends on who she is!dennis baker wrote:and what was that about winches being useless.........................shut up.
Alan W. Johnson
_______________
MB, 201453, "Lt Bob"
MB, 1942, not stock
M-100, Sep 1951
MB-TD, Mar 2012
Ford 91C, 1939
_______________
MB, 201453, "Lt Bob"
MB, 1942, not stock
M-100, Sep 1951
MB-TD, Mar 2012
Ford 91C, 1939
- Dan S
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Re: tow bars
Prarber,
I have always kind of liked the looks of the WWII tow bar. If you ever find one that you do not want, I would be glad to pay the shipping for you to send it my way. I don't see myself ever paying the going rate for one. I love those stories of folks paying $25.00 for them NOS in the 1970's.
Dan S
I have always kind of liked the looks of the WWII tow bar. If you ever find one that you do not want, I would be glad to pay the shipping for you to send it my way. I don't see myself ever paying the going rate for one. I love those stories of folks paying $25.00 for them NOS in the 1970's.
Dan S
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Re: They are not tow bars...Tandam Hitches.
Its not a towbar. Its a tandam towing hitch to move a gun into a useful position with two jeeps.
Its obvious this gentleman hasn't the proper knowledge to make a judgement on the subject. But in a combat situation, this would be an important piece of equipment that should not be derided simply because it doesn't fit into a persons idea of a usefull accessory 60 years later. They are an historical artifact that may have saved many combat soldiers lives when fitted and used as designed.
My humble opinion.
Its obvious this gentleman hasn't the proper knowledge to make a judgement on the subject. But in a combat situation, this would be an important piece of equipment that should not be derided simply because it doesn't fit into a persons idea of a usefull accessory 60 years later. They are an historical artifact that may have saved many combat soldiers lives when fitted and used as designed.
My humble opinion.
"Have fun with your jeep"
Jeep'in NY, About One Hour From Canada
42 GPW*42 M3 Halftrack*51 M38*52 M38A1*53M37
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Member Niagara Military Vehicle Assoc; Ontario, Canada
Jeep'in NY, About One Hour From Canada
42 GPW*42 M3 Halftrack*51 M38*52 M38A1*53M37
Vietnam Veterans of America unit 193
MVPA # 435
Member Niagara Military Vehicle Assoc; Ontario, Canada
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Re: They are not tow bars...Tandam Hitches.
I agree. However the tandem hitch is quite practical as a towbar. I have towed '42 Ford to many carshows with the old tandem hitch when there weren't enough of my friends around to drive all of the trucks at once, and it follows right along.David Neale wrote:Its not a towbar. Its a tandam towing hitch to move a gun into a useful position with two jeeps.
Its obvious this gentleman hasn't the proper knowledge to make a judgement on the subject. But in a combat situation, this would be an important piece of equipment that should not be derided simply because it doesn't fit into a persons idea of a usefull accessory 60 years later. They are an historical artifact that may have saved many combat soldiers lives when fitted and used as designed.
My humble opinion.
I have never had a tandem hitch fall apart yet (or the front end of my jeep) and I'm not expecting it to They were designed to withstand the rigors of beings pulled by another jeep while pulling a 105 howitzer through the sands of a beach and into dense brush where the larger deuces couldn't get through.
I remember reading somewhere that it wasn't recommended to tow a jeep with the tandem hitch behind a larger truck such as a deuce, as stopping the truck would cause the jeep to keep moving right under the rear end
1995 AM General M35A3 S/N 500246
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~1950 Federal Enterprises Model 5 12-port 5 Horsepower Air Raid Siren
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Re: tow bars
In the UK we can’t use any sort of tandem hitch (A frame is the UK term) on the road unless the vehicle brakes are connected to an over run coupling on the hitch.
Effectively a vehicle towed in this way is classed as a trailer and the max mass of an unbraked trailer in the UK is 750Kg (1653Lbs) so the jeep at 2200lbs plus any kit stashed in the back gives us a problem…… not to mention if you took your car driving test after 1997 then you would need to another test to allow you to tow over 750Kg … and that’s only the tip of the towing story…..
Effectively a vehicle towed in this way is classed as a trailer and the max mass of an unbraked trailer in the UK is 750Kg (1653Lbs) so the jeep at 2200lbs plus any kit stashed in the back gives us a problem…… not to mention if you took your car driving test after 1997 then you would need to another test to allow you to tow over 750Kg … and that’s only the tip of the towing story…..
Andrew Neaves
G4BKA
1944 GPW 195576
1948 Land Rover production number 184
1949 Land Rover
1975 101FC
G4BKA
1944 GPW 195576
1948 Land Rover production number 184
1949 Land Rover
1975 101FC
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Re: tow bars
Hi Ernie,
Good to hear from you.
My 2 cent on the topic: The "Tandam Tow Hitch" is the technical term for what we commonly call the WWII Jeep tow bar. The Tandam Tow Hitch was designed to hook two Jeeps together to tow an artillary piece a reletively short distance under combat conditions (not highway speeds).
I have had an original WWII Tandam Tow Hitch on my GPW for about 25 years and I have used it many times to tow my Jeep to various parades and MVPA shows as far away as Lowell MA. But, I would warn others using an original or reproduction WWII Tandam Tow Hitch to check their bumper gussetts and spring mounts frequently. I have cracked the welds on front spring mounting area twice and I have experienced cracks in my origial gusset plates. I believe the cracks occur because at highway speeds (even though I don't tow faster then 50 MPH) cause a fare amount of flexing in the frame horns and gussets. Maybe this is unique to GPW's....maybe not.
As originall designed, the Tandam Tow Hitch was meant to get an artiliary piece probably just a few miles down a slow dirt road of field under combat conditions. Doubt is was used enough to experience many cracks or stressed to the frame or jeep.
I continue to use my Tandam Tow Hitch to tow my GPW, but I do inspect the front frame horns, gussets and welds frequently and I use a strong safety chain just incase!
Ernie....See you at the Gilbert Show in PA next Month.
Regards,
Gary
For those that said they don't like Tandem Tow Hitches or Capstan Winches on a G503.....you will hate my Jeep....picture below:
Good to hear from you.
My 2 cent on the topic: The "Tandam Tow Hitch" is the technical term for what we commonly call the WWII Jeep tow bar. The Tandam Tow Hitch was designed to hook two Jeeps together to tow an artillary piece a reletively short distance under combat conditions (not highway speeds).
I have had an original WWII Tandam Tow Hitch on my GPW for about 25 years and I have used it many times to tow my Jeep to various parades and MVPA shows as far away as Lowell MA. But, I would warn others using an original or reproduction WWII Tandam Tow Hitch to check their bumper gussetts and spring mounts frequently. I have cracked the welds on front spring mounting area twice and I have experienced cracks in my origial gusset plates. I believe the cracks occur because at highway speeds (even though I don't tow faster then 50 MPH) cause a fare amount of flexing in the frame horns and gussets. Maybe this is unique to GPW's....maybe not.
As originall designed, the Tandam Tow Hitch was meant to get an artiliary piece probably just a few miles down a slow dirt road of field under combat conditions. Doubt is was used enough to experience many cracks or stressed to the frame or jeep.
I continue to use my Tandam Tow Hitch to tow my GPW, but I do inspect the front frame horns, gussets and welds frequently and I use a strong safety chain just incase!
Ernie....See you at the Gilbert Show in PA next Month.
Regards,
Gary
For those that said they don't like Tandem Tow Hitches or Capstan Winches on a G503.....you will hate my Jeep....picture below:
Gary
Andover, NJ
45 GPW, 44 Bantam Trailer, 44 M6A1 Mortor Hand Cart, 1944 Converto Dump Trailer
Andover, NJ
45 GPW, 44 Bantam Trailer, 44 M6A1 Mortor Hand Cart, 1944 Converto Dump Trailer
- jklier
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Re: tow bars
I've never seen a tandem bar and capstan installed together. Very neat!
- SmarT
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Re: tow bars
I personally was never a fan of the look of the tandem bars until I finally got further in my restoration and removed the tandem plate that was on the dash of my jeep revealing the original first coat of paint. I dont know how common it is to have a jeep that you know for sure had a tandem bar on it in it's military life, but Im proud to have one and hope to someday mate a tandem bar back to my jeep when I can find one that doesnt sell before I get to it I definitely like the looks and practicality of them, now. And, seeing as how there are so few original pictures of jeeps with tow bars, when I actually find a pic of one with one there is a good possibility it might be mine. What David said is true, they are a historical artifact just like the jeep is. Seeing as how I dont really trust anyone to drive my vehicles too much it would make it easy to hook the gpw behind my m37 and take both to a local car show. Anyone come across one for sale that isnt $1,000, please by all means let me know for my jeep has a right to one...
Malachi Springer
-1942 Ford script GPW #12977--dod 4-42
-1944 Pole Type, type 1 trailer *sold*
-1949 Bantam t3c #14934 *sold*
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"It's opposite day and everyone is cool."
-1942 Ford script GPW #12977--dod 4-42
-1944 Pole Type, type 1 trailer *sold*
-1949 Bantam t3c #14934 *sold*
-1951 M37 #80009566--dod 6-51 *sold*
-1951 Dunbar M100 #01175051--dod 7-51
"It's opposite day and everyone is cool."
- illustr8r
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Re: tow bars
Perhaps your "2 cent", but not according to Mr. Roos.Gary25 wrote:My 2 cent on the topic: The "Tandam Tow Hitch" is the technical term for what we commonly call the WWII Jeep tow bar. The Tandam Tow Hitch was designed to hook two Jeeps together to tow an artillary piece a reletively short distance under combat conditions.]
The narrow "designed to....." uses asserted.... "two jeeps", "combat situations", "short distances", etc..... PURE Nonsense.
No such limitations are stated in the lengthy claims regarding D.G Roos' conceived and patented "TOWING DEVICE".
Beyond that, other "POST conception, design, prototype, test, patent" uses such as tandem Jeep configurations for moving heavy artillery.... were an ADDED advantage, broadening the invention's usefulness.
Not "instead of", which is contrary the FACTS.
With respect to "Tandem Operation" dash plates... uphill, downhill, etc., those would be specific to two Jeeps, with TWO drivers, pulling a third wheeled object, and pertaining ONLY to those circumstances, per ORD. (Not per "designed for").
Sarge, the Jeep won't start. Guess we'll have to leave it 'cause all we've got is this darn tandem opp thing.
http://www.google.com/patents?id=U0NQAA ... os&f=false" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
'44 GPW 192067, 4/1/44, U.S.N.
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'44 Bantam T3 #49202, 8/17/44, (#0704670 est.)
http://www.design-consultants.com/tempo ... W&T3.2.jpg
http://www.g503.com/serial-numbers/view ... rd_id=2897
'44 Bantam T3 #49202, 8/17/44, (#0704670 est.)
http://www.design-consultants.com/tempo ... W&T3.2.jpg
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