Vlchek jeep toolkit for sale? Actually, a debate on prices !

[David H. Morganthall]

Luca, based upon my own experience, I have about this much in my own set and I bought them one piece at a time, so keep collecting.

[Chuck Lutz]

You guys need to find the middle ground on the tool kits being offered as cheap/expensive/ridiculous....

We all agree that Ebay is not the benchmark of prices but the CEILING of prices and usually we laugh at the money spent there....

But in all fairness, some guys have more money to blow than others do and would rather pull a couple hours of OT and just buy that d*mn thing than hit the flea markets and others places. Some guys WILL buy on Ebay and get burned, because they don't know DIDDLY about what they are looking for and did not do their homework before bidding.

I'm kinda in the middle....I found a few wrenchs for fifty CENTS and some for a DOLLAR....I traded them for the ones I wanted and got a good start on a kit....then I felt it was OK to pay top dollar for one or two items I needed and used Ebay, but overall I didn't pay Ebay prices for EVERY item. I agree that you can put four or five hundred dollars out to try to assemble a kit....notice I did not say "correct" kit, just one that most of the guys here feel is OK.....

We don't know a LOT about what correct kit's came with which jeep at what time and which contractors were found with which other contractors, so I am sympathetic to those who are skeptical about shelling out $400 or $500 only to find out next week they have $150 worth of tools worth $5 dollars....

But, I think if you WANT to pay big bucks, it's OK and I don't slag those who offer partial, whole, correct, close, nearly, sorta or what is claimed to be "correct" by some for big bucks.....we may find out next week that the kit they have IS correct and it will then be worth $500 to $700 on Ebay instantly....see what happened to the HELLER hammer? We have several logos on them and just don't know if ONE of them or ALL of them are OK for a WWII tool kit, but that isn't going to stop some from bidding the cost up, nor will it stop some from offering them....we'll jst have to see.

No, for those who have bunch of wrenchs they paid from fifty cents to $10 or $20 to complete a set of, more power to you....I'm trying to do that myself, but to those who can pull some OT and BUY a kit outright for $350 or more...."it's your jeep" as Dave Neale says, so go for it.

My only reservation is that those who sell a kit can confirm if each component is confirmed as "correct" or just "maybe"....and I don't care to debate that, I would like those claims to be generally accepted by the guys here in the Tool Shed...so to speak....but there isn't enough info to cover all the tools completely so we are not always sure...

If I buy a wrench for fifty cents and it turns out to NOT be correct, it goes on my work bench and I still got a heck of a deal on it....if I pay $20 or more singularly or a couple hundred for all five and they turn out to be incorrect....I'm going to be mad at myself for not doing my homework and mad if I was suckered....Luca occasionally references being sold tools like that and I know just how he feels....so I avoid those minefields if at all possible.

Good luck to you all in the search though, I do understand the guys who take great pride in finding a wrench or two for a buck and post their "treasure find" here .....you can be proud of putting together a kit that way, and I think even more than the guy who bought one complete, even if it takes you a couple years or so....

But each to his own....Happy tool searches to you all, and good luck bidding if you go to Ebait....and if you buy here, that's cool too....I'm sure at least that the kits offered here stand a hellofa lot better chance of being remotely correct than Ebait...we got a lot more credible sellers here than on Ebait...or in the magazine where Luca found the kit that he refers to....and warns us about (thanks!)

[lucakiki]

Chuck, I have a fairly decent memory, over being an observing kind of subversive. I also have a knack for catching people with their hands in the jam pot, but that is another story.
Here is an interesting tale from the good old days.
At the time I joined the gee, years ago, for some strange rule Italians were not allowed to bid on military items on E-bay.
Not even on a pitted rusty uncorrect wrench, if this was linked to Militaria.
I wanted to buy a toolkit on sale, and asked one of the gee guys if he would bid and buy on my behalf. He answered that he would do so, but also warned me that such a kit was just a load of junk. You know, the Loblolly Lane kind.
Of course I listened to him, and saved a few bucks.
The limit for Italians was shortly after removed, and I could buy on ebay whatever I felt like to, as long as I managed to "win" it. Never stopped to ever since.
The guy who had saved me is the second guy who sent me a private message after my joining the gee. The first one was, you guessed it, Bob N., while the second was Chuck Lutz from Novato.
That is why I just laugh when someone labels me as a Tool Guru. As for the status of money blower, I earned it on the field, and I never regretted it one bit. As noted, I am in good company.
I bought so many tools, at times because I needed them to complete partial sets made out of the leftovers from my upgrades, at times because, even on ebay, they were outageously cheap, or for the hell of the hunt. I never lost any money when I started to resell them, just for fun. Only drawback, the dollar exchange rate. As an exemple, the forty bucks I paid to Jeff Q. for a no-name 323 where worth more than the forty bucks I charged him when I resold him the very same wrench. No big deal, though.
I repeated it so many times: let us not demonize ebay.
Good bargains can be found there, if you know what you are doing.
I bought on ebay, for less and from the same guy, the very same wrench I did not buy from him on the gee.
Conversely a toolkit offered on the gee for some 300$ and unsold, made more than 400$ on ebay.
All this will change, on the day when the 55$ complete and original kits will be on sale on this great forum.
The same day, let us take shelter from the flying elephants: their manure is big and heavy.

[karl oliver]

This FLAY cat or whatever was like a fart in the whirlwind......vanished or has he

[Mitch Olson]

Sorry Luca, Jon Rogers from Oz. And also if you will review this thread about the 55 dollar tool kit, you missed one very Important but very small word... IF, I said if Icould put one together for that price.
And that as you say is not Bovine fertalizer..And that is actually what I said. (IF) Please if you quote me do it accurately.

Happy tool hunting to all.

Mitch

[lucakiki]

Sorry Luca, Jon Rogers from Oz.

OK. Jon Rogers. The same Jon Rogers who would have jumped on my kit, had he needed one, at my outrageous price! Don't you trust him? Last time I heard of someone not trusting him, it was about trailers of Swiss provenance, but manufactured in USA. Good memory, eh?

And also if you will review this thread about the 55 dollar tool kit, you missed one very Important but very small word... IF, I said if I could put one together for that price.
And that as you say is not Bovine fertalizer..And that is actually what I said. (IF) Please if you quote me do it accurately.

Nothing beats copy and paste for accuracy. Here it is, in all its glory,verbatim:

My only point is this. Market's are what they are, If I can put a tool kit with the correct tools with the tool bag, original or Repro. With a combined cost of say 55 U.S.D

Given I can read, ( With a combined cost of say 55 U.S.D) I gave you my far from humble opinion, that you can read once more, accurately copied and pasted below.

I doubt that you will ever be able to assemble a complete and correct motorpool kit for the mere 55$ dollars you suggested, but I wish you good luck.

As for the following, again verbatim :

I can not justify to myself putting it out on the market for over 200 to 300 USD. And Luka's kit is not even complete, it is a "starter" kit. I know Luka sells great stuff and I for one really appreciate his contributions to this board. Basically I just do not understand this tool madness when if one shops around and hunts, they can put this stuff together on their own.

I don't think it is really good taste to discuss the price of anything offered for sale. Question the correctness of the tools and the accuracy of the description, if you have any reason to, but leave the monetary aspect alone.
As John Barton suggested elsewhere, there is no place for that in a for sale post.
I know, I know, you could not resist after reading Fay's brilliant and sincere contribution.

We all have our priorities.

Whatever! Mine was a for sale post, but I don't completely regret its forced metamorphosis. It was useful to find out the who is who, including the AKAs, and that is priceless. I also received quite a few private messages. Only one was stupid, but don't worry: I can be discreet, when I feel like to.

[Roger]

[Chuck Lutz]

Luca....I don't agree with not posting a comment on the correctness or the price offered for anything here on the gee....I'm sorry, but if a CJ head is posted as correct for an MB, I have to post that it is not.

On the other hand, if a correct MB head is offered for $300 I would also have to post about the price....I MIGHT send a PM to the seller, or I might just post that if the head is for $300, that I am assuming that it is NOS, in cosmoline, in waxed paper and with an original tag on it...for that price. Anyone who read that could probably pick up on the fact that at least one other gee member was concerned about the price and perhaps that take-off MB head would not sell to some unsuspecting guy, and come down to half that....if the seller needs to get that much, GO to Ebay, don't try to take it out of the wallet of a gee member!

That is about as subtle as I can be....I agree that some tact is needed, but often the seller has no idea of a reasonable price, and I have long accepted that the price on Ebay is not the price on GEEBAY....or have we decided that the gentlemans' agreements are no longer important and we only try to save the commission paid to Ebay here on the gee while selling for an Ebay-based price?

OK, then let's turn the gee into an AUCTION. If a spares kit that went on Ebay for $700 is offered here, do you START to offer it for sale at $700? Do you offer to auction it on GEEBAY for a reserve of $600 "because you want to give the guys an opportunity here first" or what?

Maybe the time has come for us to chip in 5% or 15% to Ron for the opportunity to sell our parts here instead of on Ebay? If we think selling our stuff for the same price as Ebay here is OK, then we should at least support the gee and kick in the same commission Ebay charges....since we ain't givin' nobody no deal no how...

This is not directed to anyone in particular, but guys, if we START to sell to each other here for what the last closing price on Ebay was, what makes this any different except you save the commission?

No, I still like to see that guys have been selling stuff here for less than Ebait prices....just because two idiots or rich guys bid the roof for a part, does not automatically make that the new benchmark for the gee....

Do any of you think a $737 spares kit is worth that? Maybe it IS worth that to some who can afford it, I don't know. You can put together one with Original FORD lamps in boxes for $20 or so, the Original Schrader valves/caps for $25 or so each, a repop fanbelt, new wire, a newer spark plug, the newer cotter pin box/canister and a 6-volt dash light.....all that and a repop CONTENTS tag and an old Ford box....should come to about $175 to $200 or so.

If that one on Ebay had ALL ORIGINAL parts, great for a collector with miney, because there are probably a handfull on the planet...so the rest of us go the other way for $175.00 and are happy. The next one offered may or may not have NOS parts in it....and will probably be offered for closer to that $700 in reserve on Ebay....and might even sell, but it's like watching some guy bid $150,000 for a slat grill then the next guy thinks his MB or GPW is worth the same amount....so do you say anything or let someone buy it thinking that's what they all cost?

Tact gentlemen, use some tact, but if you want to question the originality or cost of something, let's not quash that on the gee....then thieves, scumbags and rip-offs will start in here because it's not ALLOWED any more for us to QUESTION anything...

Sorry Luca, I have a right to disagree, I must be civil, but it has always been allowed for us to point out defects, inconsistancies, the prices, the shipping being charged and everything else on the gee, and I think it a sad day we start to change that....makes the recent changes on Ebait look quite gentlemanly....

No one has anything to hide and we all want a fair shake here...when the price is too high, I don't buy it, but I'd like to know about it being correct and I'd like to see a decent price....if that is not the intention of the seller then take the d*mn thing to Ebait FIRST and don't waste our time trying to save your commission.

You can sell your kit for whatever you want, John Barton can sell his for whatever he wants....this is America fer chrissakes, but don't tell us we can't comment on the offering or the price....if you don't like the comment, then take down the offer and go to Ebait, or just do not respond to what is posted.....

Sorry if this offends you or John Barton, that is not my intention, but changing how we buy and sell on the gee is not good for the hobby, the members here or even the sellers...I have bought from John Barton several times.....and passed on some things I thought I could find cheaper and do not have any ill feelings about that, but not being able to comment about for sale items bothers the h*ll out of me. I noted that even the stuff I did not buy from John was offered BELOW the Ebay prices, Thank you John!


We complain about Ebay, we complain about how the Euro/Dollar rate is doing, but we will not let anyone complain or even post about the same issues here on the gee?

God I hope not.

[Mitch Olson]

Roger, I second that....

O.K. just to go one step further regarding the heat that I am taking for 55 dollar tool kit. Yes It may not be possible completely but. After this summers tool hunts here is what I have come up with for a tool kit.

1 Original took bag, O.K. shape nothing to write home about, but useful and original. And I agree with Luca here that the Repro Bags are good if not even better than the orginals.

4 correct BB wrenches.

1 Mossberg Spark Plug wrench still in the Cosmo, along with the parts tag which is readble through the gum.

1 Correct Fairmont open end 11 inch wrench, ( Not Fairmont Cleve )which passes the HUB test.

1 Correct Irwin screw driver, handle reveals a lot of use but none the less correct for the jeep.

1 Correct Fairmoount hammer, Head is correct but the handle was shortened by the previous owner to fit in a smaller tool bag. Hammer only measures 12.5 inches.

1 Pliers, BB

1 Wrench Socket, Hub Nut, Unkown manufacture, but works on the jeep and has the correct lobe for the wrench vs. the new modern ones that have the circular cut out.

Total Money invested to date...... 35 dollars. And as Bill Murray said in the movie Stripes... That's the facts Jack.

55 might be out of the question, but I aint doing to bad at this point

Mitch

[Greg Hines]

Mitch,

I'll give you $40 for that lot and I won't even ask for pictures

Greg

[john barton]

Brother Luca, did you sell these tools yet???

[lucas]

Greg: I'll up that bid to $45, also without pictures required.....

[lucakiki]

Luca....I don't agree with not posting a comment on the correctness or the price offered for anything here on the gee....I'm sorry, but if a CJ head is posted as correct for an MB, I have to post that it is not.

If the head is misrepresented, any comment on that is actually praiseworthy. The head vintage and correctness are not a variable, they are facts.
The price ( different from the value) is not a fixed entity and is opinionative.
Too expensive? Just don't buy. Misrepresented? Complain, point out, and you should be thanked, at times also by the seller himself.

No, I still like to see that guys have been selling stuff here for less than Ebait prices....just because two idiots or rich guys bid the roof for a part, does not automatically make that the new benchmark for the gee....

True, no ebay price can be a bench mark, be it for the high prices, be it for the ridiculously low ones. But those who happen to buy at over the roof prices are not necessarily idiots. It is their money,after all. Just as I would not dare to define as tight a$$ed any guy who refuses to pay over 5 bucks for a wrench or hammer. He just has "different priorities." How is that for political correctness?

Sorry Luca, I have a right to disagree, I must be civil, but it has always been allowed for us to point out defects, inconsistancies, the prices, the shipping being charged and everything else on the gee, and I think it a sad day we start to change that....makes the recent changes on Ebait look quite gentlemanly....

No one has anything to hide and we all want a fair shake here...when the price is too high, I don't buy it, but I'd like to know about it being correct and I'd like to see a decent price....if that is not the intention of the seller then take the d*mn thing to Ebait FIRST and don't waste our time trying to save your commission.

You can sell your kit for whatever you want, John Barton can sell his for whatever he wants....this is America fer chrissakes, but don't tell us we can't comment on the offering or the price....if you don't like the comment, then take down the offer and go to Ebait, or just do not respond to what is posted.....

Sorry if this offends you or John Barton, that is not my intention, but changing how we buy and sell on the gee is not good for the hobby, the members here or even the sellers...I have bought from John Barton several times.....and passed on some things I thought I could find cheaper and do not have any ill feelings about that, but not being able to comment about for sale items bothers the h*ll out of me. I noted that even the stuff I did not buy from John was offered BELOW the Ebay prices, Thank you John! ....OMISSIS....

.

Chuck, there are rules that prevent any offer on the for sale forum to be an auction, or even a disguised auction.
There are , not yet at least, rules that forbid comments on asking prices.
So, it is a matter of taste . On the issue, I am obviously more with John Barton and with the bunch of other guys who have the same opinion:they happen to be in Europe, USA and Australia.
I have the privilege to be a shark who sell his tool for outrageous prices, and a sucker who buys tools at outrageous prices.All at the same time and -ain't this an achievement?- always with the one very same verified identity.

I am extremely uncomfortable when I see an item for twice or three times what I THINK it is worth. On the other hand, it is not our place to set the fair market value, so how do we comment? Either we don't comment on the price or we simply say...."will you take $10 for that wrench you are asking $20 for" in a post...

Well, Chuck, I agree on most of the above quoted , mainly on not commenting on a price. As for offering 10 bucks when the asking price is twenty, is this called to haggle, isn't it?


Jon,
I found the old thread you remembered. You are right, my price now is lower than what was accepted as fair at that time. With a lower value of the dollar, for good measure. Here it is, for those who might care:

http://g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t= ... light=case

And I agree with Luca here that the Repro Bags are good if not even better than the orginals.

Careful, man! I said that repro bags are a better option than a post war original, for a WWII jeep. Just for the record.

Brother Luca, did you sell these tools yet???

No, not yet. Might be the recession, might be the tough competition, but it did not sell yet. I might take out a couple of tools, and sell the kit for a reduced price,as the other guys do. Or even reshuffle it. But not to day. To day, it is April fool's day...

Greg and Lucas, this is not an auction! You don't want to irritate Chuck, do you?
Me? I will not bid! Mikch would not sell to me, I suspect.
Too bad, I will blow my euros in some other way!
I... would love... to see the pictures... though..

Any one with an expensive Chrome alloy Fairmount 723?

[Mitch Olson]

Luca: I would not have any problem selling to you. This kit that I have been putting together is for me. I have assembled two other kits and sold them to fellow "G" members and friends, who live in other parts of the world that the tools are hard to find.

I am fortunate to live in a area ( Northern California ) where after WWII. Hundreds of WWII jeeps were rotated out of Military service and into Civillian agricutural service. Tools, parts etc. came with these jeeps and are quite plentyfull in my area. Such is not the case around the world.

Sorry to say that the Old Timers who bought these jeeps have mostly died off. ( As my wife's grandfather did ) He bought his jeep out of Oakland California for a grand total of 250.00 dollars.

By enlarge the younger generation, Grand Kids and Great Grand kids sorrly have no interest it what Grandpa or Great Grandpa had. An put a lot of this stuff up for sale not realizing what it is really worth. On many many occasion while attended these events I have seen very, very good jeeps for sale for cheap... really cheap. Rather than buy these jeeps. I find the family member who is in charge of the event and point out the value or potential value of the jeep and give them my two cents worth on its value. Sometimes they ingnore me. Other times they take my input and sell it via someother source.. I even get thank you cards from them after they get a better price. I do this out of honesty and respect for our veterans.

Can you imagine going to one of these events and seeing a 44 GPW that is in running condition ( Needs Work of course) but the starting bid is: $100.00 dollars. Now some would slobber all over themselves and take complete advantage of the seller. This I can not do and do not do. It is just a personal thing with me. My GrandFather was severely wounded on D-Day and my Father fought in the Korean war.

As a factual example: Several months ago I read a advertisment in our local paper placed by a seller of a 52' jeep. Seller wanted 2,500 dollars for it. I went over to take a look and it was a pristine jeep!!! Frame up restoration conducted in 2003. I told the seller that it was worth more than that and that I would be happy to post it here on the "g" for him and see if he could get a better price. ( I would have loved to have the jeep and I had the money in my pocket at the time) I made the post for him, with directions to contact the seller directly not me. Long story short he was able to sell that very very nice jeep to a person who had a lot of knowledge of jeep for over 11,000 Dollars both seller and buyer where happy as a clam. My reward, nothing but the fact that a fool and his money were not parted. ( You can check the archives of the "g" if you doubt me on the post)

I am a avid supporter of our Local Veterans of Foreign Wars Group ( Not a military veteran myself) However I did spend 20 plus years in Law Enforcement until medical conditions forced me to retire. ( On Duty Injury rendered me unalble to work in the required compacity for the job)

A lot of times when one of the local veterans pass away family members will contact me and say, I think grand dad would have liked it if you had this. Cause he knew you respected him for his service. Sometimes it will be a unit patch, few tools, a flag from a foreign county or a picture of him while in the service.

Finally my calling you a "Tool Guru" is not a insult it is a compliment. You have contributed a wealth of information to this site. Your Acquired knowledge and excellent pictures of rare tools has been a benifit to all. I thank you for that. It has saved me many many dollars.

Rambling along on this post, regarding the prices of tools and parts. Yes it is up to the seller and buyer to decide what something is worth. But I feel we are all free here on the "G" to post our opinons and present questions when we feel it is necessary. At one time I was a young buck on this fourm with little experince about jeeps, parts tools and so on and so forth.

I got SNOOKERED by a few sellers here on the "g" as well as EBait regarding original parts and tools as being original. Only to find out later that they were either pre-war and post war. Not what they were advertised for. And I paid a lot of money for them. So I think that it is only fair to the NEW people here and to those that do not possess accurate knowledge of items and prices to be able to have the advantage of discussion and opinion for their benifit and ours. They, like I when I started out, did know have the knowledge of the many of us here have. Lets give them a fair shake. After all is not the goal of this group the same.

The preservation of our old military vehicles, tools etc. etc. so that the next generation continues the legacy with accurate knowledge?

Finally, If you are looking for some special tool, drop me a PM and I will look around for it for you and see what I can do.

Mitch

[john barton]

Chuck..
I'm not sure what I posted or said that you are commenting about...that you say you hope doesn't offend me..?

I get comments on my prices...I politely pm the person and say that "you don't have to buy them"

I have commented on other people's sale items and prices many times. The reason I wrote the shovel and ax posts was because ole joel said i was selling incorrect tools!

I'm not offended...I also believe that we should comment about correctness or prices...we owe it to the new people who haven't read 7 or 8 years worth of posts..

I was asking people not to turn my for sale post into a 40 page commentary...maybe I didn't make that clear?? My prices and tool correctness are always open to any comment.

If the $400 price on my fairmount tools is too high..it won't sell! When it reaches the bottom of the page I will take it to epay or the next show.

I get on Luca because he takes it too personally...I don't care. If it doesn't sell here..It will certainly sell somewhere else. I have tools and jeep parts
tucked away I haven't seen in 20 years! If I die- my daughter will have a street sale and someone else will buy it for scrap!! I want to spread it around before then because I'm using the money to finish what will probably be my last restoration!

John

edited coz i kaint spel