1944 Jeep ID help - WARNING GRAPHICS INTENSIVE

[ajlang]

Bucking our usual trend of 12 hour each way drives to look at Jeeps or Jeep parts, we stumbled across 2 jeeps about an hour from us. Both Jeeps are Willys. One is fairly complete and one is just parts (frame, body, gauges, rear axle). My brother ended up purchasing the pair and we took them home.
The parts jeep has the hooks on the front frame horn. The complete jeep had them but the owner removed them some time ago.

Here is a picture of the front frame horns on the complete jeep (notice the front bumper still has the original wood insert).





The first thing we noticed about the jeep is the cutout in the hood and the bracket setup.





On the interior we noticed some extra plates. When cleaned up we figured what we likely had was a jeep that had been setup with a fording kit.








The parts jeep did not have the fording setup, but in addition to the front frame hooks - both jeeps had this access panel right behind the transmission/transfercase.





The guy we got the jeep from had removed these items from the jeep, but had hung onto them and they came with the jeep. It is all 24 volt setup and I am assuming part of the waterproofing for the fording kit.







The engine has various lines and such I am not familiar with:







The frame tag and plates are all there. MB376929 and the engine is MB484692. I believe the engine is original. The major modifications to the jeep are a T-90 transmission, tail gate cut into it and some car seats have been added. Other than that it is fairly unmolested.

It did have a scalloped rear axle shaft and a 4" slat grill rim on it which are going on the slat grill.

So what do we have? Obviously it has a fording kit. Is this a post war kit? What is that access panel behind the transmission for? Am I correct in assuming if it had the hooks on the front frame horns it was likely a Marine Corp or Navy Jeep? Any help y'all have would be greatly appreciated.
Best regards,

Andy Lang

[nlang]

The frame tag is MB376929 and the engine is MB484692.

[ajlang]

Here are some pictures of the other jeep.







Note it has the intact hooks on the front frame horns. The same access panel between the drivers and passenger seat. It also looks like somebody added a loop on the back.

Andy Lang

[Jamie M]

An exciting find.

Looks to me like you found two USN/USMC radio jeeps. If you do some research here you will find plenty of info on the radio jeeps.

The holy grail will be the information on the glovebox data plates. As it seems no original NOM data plates exist.

[nlang]

Here is a link to more pictures of the jeep.

http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/showgal ... dition=and

I have been trying to find more information about the fording and radio equipment but I have not had a lot of luck. From what I have been reading, it sounds like the fording equipment would pressurize the transmission and transfer case to help keep water out. There is some interesting piping in the crossover tube that I am guessing is part of this. I uploaded some pictures of this that you can see in the link above. I can’t find the link now, but I did run across a picture that showed the 24v generator and voltage regulator mounted in the engine compartment. I was also reading that there was a generator that ran off of a PTO mounted between the driver and passenger seats. This would explain the hole in the floor just behind the transfer case. Does anyone have any pictures showing this? It would also be helpful if anyone could point me in the direction of a manual showing the setup for the deep fording kit (piping, attachments, etc…).

Thanks for any help or comments.

Nathan

[Mark Tombleson]

What you need is a copy of Army Motors #120 and 121... the last two issues printed this year. Do you belong to MVPA and have these magazines? In Army Motors issue 120 I go over how to tell which Navy radio jeep you have and what the differences are in the different models. Issue 121 goes into the late war Navy radio jeeps, which you may have.

There is a whole list of small items to tell if it was a MZ, MZ-1, MZ-2 or a later issue contract radio jeep. It is possible they could be standard MBs modified after the war, but let’s first see what we can tell here.

MB376929 (Sorry made and oops here. I have recorded an MZ-2, 376934 which is real close to yours).

"I will try to update this post with that info later - but it is MB369???

Are these the two frame numbers?

Tell me... do either of the glove boxes have an oval hole on the floor of the glove box? Is the glove box hinged or does it just pop off… held in place by tabs?
There appears to be a large data plate just to the right of the hand brake above the warning data plate… remove the paint and see what is on that plate.

This jeep of yours is of great interest to me and I'm sure to Fred Coldwell, who wrote the Navy radio jeep article in AM 121.
Here are a couple of photos of my jeep.







Hehe, Nathan... You posted while I was writing...

[ajlang]

"I will try to update this post with that info later - but it is MB369???

Are these the two frame numbers?

Mark,
Nate posted the correct # on the Jeep. I was trying to go from memory (which is obviously not very good). The other Jeep does not have a frame tag or plates. There appears to be one plate missing above the fording plate. The guy Nate got the jeep from had an aluminum plate that had 1-CVD-10182-D1/4 Ton 4x4 Truck and something about MRC-8A radio equipment - but he could not remember if it came off the jeep or not. I am not sure if that makes sense or not.
Thanks for your help. I will let Nate respond to the rest of your post.
Andy Lang

[nlang]

The correct frame # is MB376929. The parts jeep did not have a frame tag. The jeep that is pretty much complete does not have the oval hole in the bottom of the glove box, but the parts jeep does have it. The complete jeep has a hinged glove box door and the parts jeep is missing the door. I will ask Andy to go out and look at the parts jeep to see if he can tell if it might have had a hinged or a pop off type door. The parts jeep is located at his place and the complete jeep is in my garage. The plate to the right of the parking brake is missing. The screws are there but it looks as though the plate is long gone. I am not a member of MVPA (although I know I should be). Where can I find the army motors magazines that you are talking about?

Thanks for posting the pictures of your jeep. It looks great. I would like to restore this jeep to its original condition (although Andy says I should make it into a hunting buggy or have it lowered and put lights on the bottom. Just kidding) How difficult is it to find the missing parts (generator, radio’s etc)?

Thanks for all of the great pictures and info.

Nathan

[Fred Coldwell]

Andy & Nathan:

Congratulations on your most recently acquired unusual jeep. It is an Army jeep converted in 1949 or later with field kits to a Navy/Marine Corps waterproof radio jeep. An Army jeep converted with postwar field kits to a Navy/Marine radio jeep was named Navy model CVD-10182-D, and consisted of four major components:

1. a model MB 1/4 ton 4X4 truck, the WW II basic jeep.

2. the MX-735A/MR Vehicle Modification Kit (Deep Water Fording Equipment). [Incorrect text removed from here] The unusual tubing and valves on your jeep are part of the deep water fording equipment.

3. the MX-736/MR or MX-736A/MR Power Supply Kit for the radio. This kit included an auxiliary generator mounted on that cast bracket between the seats and powered by a V belt from a PTO pulley. The between-the-seats generator would have been 12 volts or 24 volts, depending on radio set requirements; and

4. two 6 volt or two 12 volt auxiliary batteries for the radio set, depending on its voltage.

The unattached radio set data plate indicates your jeep may have had radio set AN/MRC-8A installed. That is Army radio set SCR-528, comprised of one BC-604 transmitter and one BC-603 receiver installed on a FT-237 mount base. Like the other late 1940's configured Army radio sets, it used the AB-15/GR antenna base and antenna mast sections MS-116 to MS-118. The manual is the Army's TM11-600.

Based on the radio set tag, your jeep likely had the 1949 Radio Installation Kit MX-566A/MRC.

I'll second Mark's recommendation to join the MVPA. Get "Army Motors" back issues 120 and 121, which contain articles about the ancestors to your jeep, WW II Navy and Marine Corps radio jeeps. The 1945 Navy radio jeeps were waterproof from the factory, similar to yours which was made waterproof in the field.

I have written and submitted to Army Motors another article on jeeps converted with field kits after WW II to Navy/Marine Corps waterproof radio jeeps. This article will cover much (but not all) about your jeep, and will appear in Army Motors issue #123. This is not the next issue due out this Winter (issue #122), but the magazine after that which will be published in Spring 2008 (issue #123).

Take your time with this jeep. Study it, document it extensively with photos, and gather information about how it was converted. You have one very interesting and unusual jeep there. I strongly recommend you restore it to its postwar converted waterproof radio jeep configuration. If that's not your bag or goal, then please sell the jeep to someone who will so restore it. Again, congratulations and Have Fun!

[Bob at Warsaw]

Hi Fred

Would you have any ideal of how many of the
test jeeps were done, or was this just a one
jeep deal
Thanks

[Tom Wolboldt]

Hello Andy and Nat,

Posting the body gusset numbers and style of gusset of the 2 MBs will be a big help to Mark also.

[nlang]

Thanks Fred and Mark for all of the great information. I just got off the phone with the guy that we bought the jeep from and he is going to send me the missing data plate. Andrew and I are going to restore the jeep to its post war conversion as you suggest. From the start we new that we had found a real gem. This is the most complete jeep that Andrew and I have run across. I am sure that there will be more questions as we go along with this project. This is a project that I want to make sure we do the best possible job on.

It is probably a long way off, but can you tell me how difficult it is to find the missing components that we will need, such as the radio and generator?

Thanks again for all of your help.
Nathan

[Tom Wolboldt]

Hello Fred,

You wrote

2. the MX-735A/MR Vehicle Modification Kit (Deep Water Fording Equipment). Your jeep appears to have the 1949 and later field kit that uses the Bendix-Scintilla ignition system. The 24 volt starter and generator tell us your jeep was converted to have a 24 volt waterproof ignition system. The unusual tubing and valves on your jeep are part of the deep water fording equipment.

The starter, generator, and distributor are not even close to a Bendix-Scintilla ignition/generator/starter system. The parts in Andy's photo are just standard early M38 Autolite 24 volt components after June of 1950.

[ajlang]

Mark, Fred and Jamie - thanks for the help. Mark, I will look at the glove box of the jeep at my place to see if there is any evidence of a hinged glove box. Tom, we will try to get both body #'s for Mark. There is something that Jamie alluded to in his post. Nate tried cleaning the layers of paint of the serial number tag. We fully expected to find the serial number stamped on the tag (aluminum) but the tag appears blank. I am guessing whatever info was on the tag was printed on. Is this standard for Navy/USMC contracts? Are the plates different? Would this have been added later?
Here is the tag as compared to a repro Willys tag.



Thanks again for the help.
Andy Lang

[Bob W]

From what I have been reading, it sounds like the fording equipment would pressurize the transmission and transfer case to help keep water out. There is some interesting piping in the crossover tube that I am guessing is part of this.

On the early fording systems the transmission and transfer case were vented to the air filter so they were at atmospheric pressure. The engine got pressurized slightly when the 2 valves on the PCV system were closed by pulling the fording control handle on the dash. In 1952 the M-38 fording systems were changed slightly and the transmission and transfer case were also pressurized. Those MB conversions were very much like the fording system used on the CJV35. Some of the vent connections are slightly different and the MB transmission has an additional vent line, otherwise it's just about the same. I have a web-page describing the V-35 system here....
http://www.cj3a.info/sibling/cjv35u/v35vent.html

And if you want to find out more about the M-38 systems look here...
http://www.cj3a.info/sibling/m38vent/vent.htm