What is/are the correct Paint numbers to use?

[Donald Roberts]

What is/are the correct Paint numbers to use?

I've serached on this forum, the old G503 board and M422 Yahoo groups but have not found a solid answer.

Is OD #24087 one of the correct colors to use? if so, is there another number that is also correct?

How are paint colors judged at shows for the M422 series?

Don.

[Angelo]

The correct color for the M422 is MARINES CORP GREEN SEMI GLOSS

24052 SEMI-GLOSS, Korea to Vietnam
Forest Green, Marine Corps. shade of green
M38, M38A1, M151
Plus all M-series U.S.M.C. equipment

It's made by Gillespie Coating. Rapco and Army Jeep Parts should be able to provide you with.
Angelo

[Donald Roberts]

Thanks Angelo!
I could not find a 24052 but found a 34052 that matched so assumed your number was a typo.
Painted the body and it looks a lot better then before.

[Warren Duchesne]

The difference in 24 and 34 is Semi gloss or flat but the same color .Warren D

[FUBARjeep]

OK, the Federal Standard 595-B color number 24052 is the easy part. What color are the yellow markings on the hood and bumper? I've got so many yellows in my Fed Std deck, I don't know which to match.

[Mark Tombleson]

Someone wrote me the following a few years ago for my reference, Sorry, but I can't remember who it was.

If we go by the article written by Walter Terzano & etal on USMC Vehicle Markings in Military Magazine some years back--this is what he says is used. It should be noted that there were no references giving in the article on were he got his information.

For FS 24052 Semi-Gloss Forest Green------FS 23538 Semi-Gloss Yellow

For FS 34052 Lusterless Forest Green--------FS 33538 Lusterless Yellow

All American Wonder number one and two lists the Ditzler (PPG) number, which they say is the correct color, as 40458 USMC green and 81958 USMC Yellow for the marking paint on pages 94 and 225.

The only difference from WWII up thru the 1950s is not color but if semi gloss or lusterless was used. This was based on the jeeps use. Tactical was lusterless. Administrative was semi gloss. I have heard of jeeps with gloss paint used for administrative uses also.

[mvpile]

On mine I found that Kylon "Osha yellow" was a perfect match for 81958 USMC Yellow. I used the Fed 595 color chips at my old office to make the comparison.

Steve McGinnis
M29C,M422A1,M151,M274,M43,M37, DUKW

[blackdog]

My USMC manual "Painting & Registration Marking of USMC Tactical & Combat Equipment" MCO P4750.3 dated NOV 5 1964 says:

Semigloss enamel FSN 8010-526-1609 can be used as a one coat paint system and as a two coat applicaton. It may also be used as primer. Spec TT-E-485

Lusterless Enamel FSN 8010-526-1612 lusterless alkyd enamel used as exterior camoflague finish coat over primed metal. Spec TT-E-257

Then it says at the bottom:

NOTE: Marine Corps green GLOSS (I made it capitalized - it says gloss not semi gloss) will not be used on tactical and combat equipment.

It says interior paint should be white fire retardent paint 8010-286-7840.

Interior walls and ceilings of vans and enclosures with lighting should be painted semigloss enamel. Cab interior and deck machinery of cranes and crane shovels will be painted light gray number 26492 as listed in FS number 595 8010-616-0005.

Radoes used with radar or other electornics equipment will be painted olive drab semigloss enamel number 24987 spec TT-E-529.

And, it says that if you wanna paint something a way other than above you gotta ask the Commandant of the Marine Corps for permission.

#'s are assigned to all wheeled tracked towed less towed artillery, self propelled artillery...

USMC & numbers should be on 1 line whenever practicable.

They should be applied uniformly to each side.

Markings should be uniformly applied using letters 2, 3, 4, or 5 inches in height. The use of the largest size practicable in the available space will be the determining factor in letter and numeral dimensions.

Letters are to be close-spaced but groups of letters will be seperated from groups of numerals.

Equipment painted with USMC green enamels should be marked with yellow semigloss enamel or lusterless yellow enamel AS APPROPRIATE

Painted markings should be paplied through USMC stencils to provide a uniform apperance. Gumbacked paper stencils may be used since they adhere well to almost any surface and prevent paint from being sprayed or brushed under the edges of the letters and numerals.

Use of locally procured self adhering letters and #'s is authorized provided they are procured under spec MIL-D-8634 <-- I will try and find this...

Equipment in 24052 should be marked with semigloss enamel 23538 FS# 595

Equipment in 34052 should be marked with 33538 FS# 595

Should those not be available, use of a suitable substitute is authorized as a temporary measure.

----------------------------------------------------------

Also worth mentioning is that there are pics of M38A1's, M422's, and even 60" searchlights in this book.

Another thing worth noting is that I can make you almost 100% correct vinyl decals for your mighty mites in yellow, or if you prefer to spray it on in paint mask. These are the non-stenciled numbers that you've probably seen in most pictures of M422's. You can see a picture of the same style numerals here (in this case I made them for a DUKW).

http://www.surfacezero.com/span/HPIM1402.JPG

contact me via email - markings@surfacezero.com or PM for more information

[Mark Tombleson]

Ah, Brian... does this look like the kind of Commandant of the Marine Corps you want to ask permission of?

My son says he is pleasant for small talk... but I'm sure you would get a rash of S$% asking about paint for a mighty mite.

[FUBARjeep]

Brian, thanks for the more than complete info. HOWEVER, I find that running down all of those old mil-specs can be tiring and frustrating. I spoke with Daryl Bensinger the other day about this. He was telling me that since the numbers were not applied at the factory level (like the jeeps that came before) there is no dead-on-correct color or font style for the Mite. NOW, that having been said, since I am new to forum and to the Mighty Mite (this is my first MV), I expect to get a ration from the old hands who will probably tell it like they see it (and the way they saw it when they were in the Corps) and therefore set me straight fairly quickly. Let me apologize in advance to those members who strive for the absolute minutest detail of correctness.

Since I've got some "experience" matching federal standard colors and sheens in PPG industrial enamels, I decided to have my own product matched and put in spray cans so I could paint my own numbers this weekend in preparation for the First Florida Chapter's first Southern Outpost MV Show and Swapmeet. (side note--PPG is the parent company of the Diztler company. They just prefer to have their name on the cans now, instead of the long dead Ditzler brothers.) Luckily, for me, I chose Federal Standard 595-B 23538 as the closest to the yellow color that I've seen on other Marine vehicles. This was "guessed at" before reading your post, so I consider myself darned lucky.

Thanks for the info.

[blackdog]

One more thing... the V you see on a lot of M422's, it's for the 5th Marine Regiment. So it's like this: 1st Marine Divison, 5th Marine REgiment, 3rd Batallion, 5th Marines... as far as I can tell.

[FUBARjeep]

On mine I found that Kylon "Osha yellow" was a perfect match for 81958 USMC Yellow. I used the Fed 595 color chips at my old office to make the comparison.

Steve McGinnis
M29C,M422A1,M151,M274,M43,M37, DUKW

If I'm not mistaken, the numbers you're quoting are actual PPG paint codes rather than federal standard color numbers since they all begin with a 1 (for gloss), 2 (for semi gloss), or a 3 (for lusterless or flat). I could look them up if anyone is interested.

[B.C.]

Okay, here's two cents worth from an old jarhead who admittedly didn't pay close enough attention to vehicles while on duty during the late '60s and early '70s.

As was previously pointed out, hood numbers and tactical markings were applied by the motor transport personnel in the unit that had possession of the vehicle. As such, they used whatever materials they had at hand and applied them through a machine-cut heavy paper stencil. Usually this was paint sprayed from a rattle can. I didn't pay attention to what yellow was used, but since it came through the Marine Corps supply system, one can assume there was a correct yellow color.

In my endeavors, I've been happy with National School Bus Yellow, available in a spray can at your neighborhood NAPA store. I've never had anyone tell me it was the wrong shade.

While vinyl is technically correct for M series vehicles, it was cutting edge technology back in the late '60s. I cannot recall seeing vinyl hood numbers on anything in those days, but like I said, I wasn't paying real close attention back then.

As an aside, I also do not recall EVER seeing a Mighty Mite with a top or top bows.............

Brian Cowdery
Minnesota

[FUBARjeep]

I returned yesterday from the First Florida Chapter's first ever show (The Southern Outpost Military Vehicle Rally and Swap Meet) with a placque (can that spelling be correct?) for "Top Ten". After painting the hood numbers on Friday night (at 2030), friends came over and completed the rebuild of my carb (which ended at around 2245). For its first show, I'm pretty happy with the results, even though the previous owner did most of the hard work. The long line of quarter tons ended with my A1 and the Marine vets in attendance would get to the end of the line, their eyes would light up at the "USMC" on the hood, and then they'd say one of two things. "Wow, I can't believe any of these still exist!" or "Holy Crap! I used to ride in these back in 'Nam. They really sucked!" One man, who told me he'd been a Navy medic assigned to the Marines, said he'd been issued one that quit every other day or so. I told him they probably gave the crappy ones to the squids.

Then there were the army vets who would puzzle over it, look inside, and say "This seems a lot smaller than the jeeps I rode in when I was over there." One of my buddies from the jeep club would then point out the "army" jeeps (M151's) to them and re-assure them that they were not going crazy.