Bantam 4 Wheel Steer

[R Ravencroft]

Hi
Whilst it all appears to be quite on the forum, the attached photo was encountered whilst searching through another well known MV site so I make no claims to its origin. It may be old news to you Bantam Guys, but it was nice to see a rear view for a change
Enjoy

Bantam jeep8.jpg (58.35 KiB) Viewed 1122 times

[Polar Roller]

Wll, one thing I had somehow not susses out before is that the original cars. even the so-called BRC-60's like this one had rubber seals around the tail lights...Live and learn!
S

[DavidA]

Curious...Are there any 4ws Bantams left? If so, are they in private hands or museums?

[Polar Roller]

Yes there are several (BRC-40's) still out there...Terry Williams has the old Warren Hunting car, Barney Flueger has one in Milwaulkee, Fred Smith has one or is working on one I think, on information and belief, Ken Hake kept one...another one I know exists but whereabouts cannot be disclosed...The Stout car that was in the Gilmore museum allegedly a Checker might be 4 steer but I can't remember..2 of the 3 sent to Kalamazoo were supposed to be four steers..mine had a four steer steering box on it but was not four steer...Probably forgetting someone...

Maybe someone can help me with this...I had always thought the 50 Bantam four steers were part of the 1500 original contract, but now looking at the Truman testimony and Tom Wolbot's list, it seems to me the four steers were a subject of a separate contract, were produced after the 1500 contract, and should all have pretty high numbers and dates. Terry's is such...2584 ...10-41...Tom's list contains a 11-41 car which he says was the first hood number of the 50 car 4 steer contract (W-2029179)..ut no one seems to know the whereabouts of the car...Florida? Is one of Dan Janquitto's a 4 steer? His number is 2597 11-41 which would be a logical 4 steer date...On the other hand we have a number of cars with late dates and high numbers that are NOT 4 steers...okay, there were 22 cars made up from a shortage or something in the first run, but, shouldn't most Bantams with dates above July 2 have been Russian cars? Malcolm Doosey at 2646 9-41 is not a four steer...2609 of 11-41 is not a four steer and I know oit to have been bought directly from an Army base in the late 40's...

Here's on old pic from the factory..most of you have seen I assume?

Can anyone add info here?
S

[Polar Roller]

I fergot...I think Tom Rinne has a 4 steer too, or, pieces of one...If there are five genuine ones that is a pretty impressive survival rate...10%...especially for cars that squirrely...
S

[DavidA]

I have had the good fortune of having driven a 4WS GP and rode as a passenger in it too and I was surprised how un-squirrelly it drove. The GP isn't squirrelly at all. Actually, it drove pretty nice and when you did decide to take a turn around in a tight circle, it was like driving a fork lift. Turning on a dime.

Is there anyone who would comment on the Bantam 4ws and the way it drives? We're they different?

[Jacco]

Sure they drove different, but check this pic. never seen both of them in one shot:



Cheers, Jacco

[Polar Roller]

You're amazing Jacco...I don't know where you come up with these pictures that everyone else misses! For some reason pictures keep coming out of the LIFE files...Thanks for sharing them with us...Notice how the Ford is heading for the lowest part of the grade it can find while the brave Bantam takes the steepest part head on! But that's okay..the real story is that there won't be a commissioned Willys, 4 OR 2 wheel steer 'til practically summer!! IOkay, Okay..just kidding...And, really, the Bantam 4 Steers were the last produced of their US cars...Which makes me think, judging by the trees that this is a late winter 1941 photo..or,even 194 ...Is there a date on it?

I have scans of the Bantam supplemental manual pages for $ steers if anyone is looking for them...I'm not sure if I posted them before...stop me if you've heard it...
S

[Jacco]

Found tem sometime ago through surfacezero.....enjoy! i am not amazing....just a Dutch bloke who happens to like old stuff!!

[Polar Roller]

Okay...I have seen one of those pictures before...It is 1942, and this guy is Colonel Lawes who was a key figure in the story of the original jeep (when he was Major Lawes). He was the one who opened the bids and gave the contract to Bantam (even though the Willys bid was clearly incomplete and unresponsive, it is always characterized as some kind of "kindness" of Lawes in giving Bantam the contract for the reason that they promised to do it faster. In fact Willys had no drawings of a car they would build). Lawes is also the guy who, only two months later received the Bantam pilot car and declared that he had driven every vehicle for the past twenty years and he was sure this car would make history. (It was his Chief Test driver, Captain Eugene Moseley who we see most often driving the Pilot and who called it the best prototype vehicle the Army had ever received at Holabird..and who was driving when the car was wrecked on public roads in Ohio coming back from Knox [some test driver!])

OKAy Jacco...Here's one (next post) I bet you haven't seen..it should really go into the "Wing Nut" discussion, because that is just about the only way you can recognize this as a Bantam...Taken in 1941 at the Presidio in San Francisco..Marlene Deitrich and other stars were on hand...So, it's easy to recognize the Bantam, but which of you old guys can recognize the starlertte, or is it a star?

[Polar Roller]

Okay who is this kid?...She's got the Lt's overcoat on...

[Jacco]

No Steve, never seen this photo. Thanks! Nice looking lady,...the Corner gives away it being a Bantam...but the girl, no idea!

Probably one of the older guys will know

[DavidA]

Lana Turner lived in SF then. Hmmm...

[Michael Browne]

Hey Dave,

Probably one of the older guys will know

Looks like you are in this category

Pretty cool pictures Jacco, thanks for sharing

[Polar Roller]

Hey...I just ran across this ...clearly this is the same guy s in Jacco's last batch of LIFE pictures. I can't remember where I found this...so, in addition to Lawes, we now have this guy identified.

The brass sure loved their Bantams when they came out! Privates and Sergeants were always shoved out of the way when it came to arriving somewhere in a jeep. When the Pilot car was hustled over to Ft. Myer to show off to Geo Marshall and the rest of the brass...It wasn't some lowly test driver who ferried it over from Holabird, but Major Lawes himself..the CO at Holabird. The worst one was John Considine...CO at Camp Oglethorp...He's a Colonel and must have spent the first six months of 1941 having movies made of himself and pictures in the paper driving the cars around. Maj Ingomar Oseth in the Chief of Infantry's office who claimed to be the father of the jeep (as if) took great umbrage at this, accusing Considine of hogging the limelight which belonged to him of course (not the guys who actually designed and built the car)...

ABS bought some rare footage of these events form the Considine estate, including one COLOR reel! I have never seen any BRC movies in color? Has anyone else? Anyway, the "Brass" showed up for rides in the jeep doing the old sapling test etc..the smiles on their faces and body language tell it all...
S