Danielson = Ford?

[Chuck Lutz]

...

[lucakiki]

Indeed ! If the identification in the "sketchy design" with CONTROLLED STEEL is correct, then we have another war time Ford-Danielson connection.

The fact is that the identification of the wrenches in the previous threads on the matter was far from univocal or safe.
It is worth going to read again those threads.
Like this one, for instance:

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=117749&hilit=staff+car+toolkit&start=75

In it any interested reader can read in lines and betwen lines.
Over finding the novel concept that tool images in the manuals where not there for collectors to identify brands fifty plus years later, in this thread well worth a reading it is possible to check how a same author identified the wrenches in more than one way and that includes Bonney.Have a look!

For those who might not be patient enough to go and read all of the linked thread (their loss!) here are a couple excerpts.

Rather than further stirring the pot,be it with an 11" or a 12" spoon, I thought more useful for this thread to post these pictures. As all can see, John Barton's suggestion of Controlled Steel has, from a visual point, quite solid bases. Just as Greg's suggestion of Bonney, in the Zenel Variant.
Of course the actual ISN of said wrenches has limited relevance. No ISN was required to be on the wrenches, be it e.g. 3025, 1025 or 25 to denote size 1/2" x 19/32".




Please note:The Controlled steel and Bonney ZENEL pictures are borrowed from http://www.alloy-artifacts.com

Or this one:

by Chuck Lutz » Wed May 21, 2008 3:05 pm

Another possibility for the wrench in the pic is the Billings M-series...check Fig. 81 in the AA article....1942-1945 they had one with the same rounded ends of the indented portion, painted or plain steel due to Chrome and Cadmium shortages.....there even have them in a tapered shank type.

AND....Billings was providing wrenches for WWII Jeeps.....Hmmm.

[Chuck Lutz]

...

[lt.luke]

the Bonney Zenel and the Controlled Steel that Luca posted are two different sizes of wrench, which would easily account for the slightly different overall taper of the handle. Add that one is stamped on the head, which is quite easy to add per a different manufacturers spec, or even easier to leave off.

With all the discussion lately of sub-contracted tools and numerous different brands manufactured in the same factory:



I believe what we may have is a case of two brands made in the same forging die by the same company?

Thoughts?

[Wingnutt]

To my eye the heads on the Zenels are considerably more pear- than round-shaped, and the inset (or recessed panel) is deeper. (Same thing with the Billings M-seriers, not pictured.) FWIW, and with all the usual caveats in place for trying to identify tools based on old photographs, etc, I have to say that I think the Danielson Controlled Steel are a dead ringer for the wrenches in that Ford manual.

[lucakiki]

:!: the Bonney Zenel and the Controlled Steel that Luca posted are two different sizes of wrench, which would easily account for the slightly different overall taper of the handle. Add that one is stamped on the head, which is quite easy to add per a different manufacturers spec, or even easier to leave off.

With all the discussion lately of sub-contracted tools and numerous different brands manufactured in the same factory:



I believe what we may have is a case of two brands made in the same forging die by the same company?

Thoughts?

Luke, I merely reposted the same pictures that I had already posted, borrowed fom alloy-artifacts, duly credited and not cut. They were the quickest way to post images for comparison.
I do not think at all they might come from the same factory. I have a picture of my own Zenels, somewhere, in GMTK sizes and if manage to retrieve it I will post it so you can have a look. I only have one controlled steel,most likely in a useless size,and it cannot be mistaken for a Zenel nor for another Bonney...
The image was definitely airbrushed,to make it easier to print.
All discussions on that image had been already posted an still printed, so it is no use to repeat them again here.

To my eye the heads on the Zenels are considerably more pear- than round-shaped, and the inset (or recessed panel) is deeper. (Same thing with the Billings M-seriers, not pictured.) FWIW, and with all the usual caveats in place for trying to identify tools based on old photographs, etc, I have to say that I think the Danielson Controlled Steel are a dead ringer for the wrenches in that Ford manual.

Greg, it was the sadly missed John Barton who first thought to identify the engineer wrenches in that image as Controlled Steel.
The same image has been used in an attempt to identify the 11" adjustable,in an effort to find, at least for early GPWs, a plausible alternative to that More 12" that a small but not negligible number of collectors is not keen to accept gladly.
The usual suspects gave it a try.
The outcome was nothing to be that happy about,and I recall spending more time that it was worth in posting images in an effort to reach a conclusion.

[Chuck Lutz]

...

[lt.luke]

Chuck, not sure what the 11" discussion has to do with this thread, unless Danielson made that wrench during the war. However, nibbling for a moment:

has other characteristics that are not what appear in the 2GA kit

,

My eye for detail is blind today, what are they?

BTW, thanks to Wing and Luca, I see the error of my earlier statement. I disagree on the depth of the depression, but based on the round vs pear shape, the wrenches in the photo seem "round" to me, vs "pear".

[lucakiki]

Luke, here is a picture of my only "fleamarket grade" CONTROLLED STEEL wrench,snapped on purpose last evening in my countryside garage :



Here, as promised, my own set of Zenel Bonneys in GMTK sizes:


I wonder if turning this thread in a 11" adjustable identification is such a useful thing, given there is a dedicated thread by the same author.

[Wingnutt]

Te are NICE Zenels, Luca!

[lucakiki]

Te are NICE Zenels, Luca!

Yes, they are nice and in very good condition.Meant for some GMTK, also because their supposedly higher price would anyway make them not plausible for a staff car toolkit or even less for a motorpool jeep toolkit.
Sorry if I posted them in a thread dedicated to Ford-Danielson connections, but I had promised I would to Luke so I obliged.
I also revived the thread about the auto type adjustable used by Ford "early",
viewtopic.php?f=48&t=184351
so this thread stays a Danielson=Ford thread.
The author of this thread will hopefully appreciate,given his constant worry for "staying on focus".

[Chuck Lutz]

....

[lucakiki]

Great, let us stay on topic,rather than discuss adjustables on here! I absolutely agree.
Leave the snide remarks aside! Also on that I absolutely agree!
Here is a recap of the clues for a Danielson/Ford connection.

.Danielson Pliers in the Bizal kit.
.Danielson Pliers identified as such by Chuck Lutz in the Rockhampton picture.
.Controlled Steel wrenches possibly identified as such by some (by the late John Barton as first) in the staff car toolkit image.

Did I forget any other clue?

My reference [two lines, not a whole post like someone else did] to the previous use of the same image to identify the adjustable was meant to underline how the identification of tools from that image had been attempted before, with a far from univocal outcome.Nothing more than that.