Engine ticking. Edit: Found the culprit !!

[echelon1]

Have you considered inserting the 0.016 feeler gauge whith the engine running, it will change the sound of the valve in question, if that is the problem.

That is a very good tip!
However, be carefull with inserting a .016" feeler gauge.
The valve could hit the head if it was milled down a few times, and it will be dificult inserting it as it would take the complete gap away.
I would take a less thick .006" feeler gauge which will eliminate clearance thicking as well.

Gindi.

[artificer]

Have you considered inserting the 0.016 feeler gauge whith the engine running, it will change the sound of the valve in question, if that is the problem.

That is an excellent way to screw up a good feeler set, particularly if the tappet face is recessed due to wear, as it appears is the case under discussion.

Pete Silfven rightly suggested eons ago that if you know the thread pitch you can work out how to adjust the tappet [in the normal adjustment position] without feelers.
Screw up to reduce clearance & get no play, then back off 2 [for 0.014"] & a smidgen more, castellations [flats on nut] for 0.016".
This method will allow for in service wear & get a more accurate adjustment.
You could also use a dial gauge to achieve the same outcome.

If one knows the threads per inch which in this case the tappet is 24 [3/8" X 24] when you turn the adjusting screw one complete turn or rotation, the tappet has moved 0.042" [1.00"/24]
If you move the 6 sided or 6 flats adjusting screw 1/6 of a turn in or out the tappet gap will increase or decrease by 0.007"....2/6 of a turn 0.014"....2.3/6 of a turn = 0.016" so
TO ADJUST VALVES WITHOUT FEELERS
Turn the engine until number 1 is @ TDC & number 4 valves are rocking [this means number 1 is TDC compression]
Turn both number 1's tappet adjustment screws to reduce [or increase] clearance, until you just can't rotate the tappet.
Now holding the in block tappet with your tappet wrench loosen the tappet screw 2.3 flats [the screw has 6 flats that the wrench fits on] & your valve clearance will be 0.016" [perfect]
Do this for both inlet & exhaust on number 1 valves
I usually mark the crank pulley with chalk top & bottom @ this stage.
Turn your engine clockwise 180* until the bottom chalk mark is now @ the top & adjust number 3 valves [the same way as you just did number 1's].
Turn the pulley a further 180* so the chalk marks are reversed & adjust number 4 valves.
Lastly turn the pulley another 180* & adjust number 2's valves.

All done in 5 minutes & I hope that description is decipherable for our European mates & some of the yanks.
Possibly will rock the king over the 20K too!

[Gustl]

@ Elwood
thanks for translation

@ John
Thanks for description "how to adjust valves w/o feelers"
learned something again!
Bookmarked

[artificer]

Klar:

Glad you could comprehend, as some of us just love to help out.
Also we need to point out that the TM has critical limitations in many areas, so is not the only source of information worthy of mention.

G503 lost an excellent experienced tradesman & contributor when Pete Silfven stopped his posts a few years ago.
Hope he is still with us & in good health.

BTW Adjusting valves can be done with feelers using the chalk trick for 6 cylinder engines, but the marks will be 120* apart then follow the firing order plus 8 cylinder engine's chalk marks will be 90* apart & follow the engine's firing order.
You would need to ascertain the thread movement on different engines if trying to adjust their tappet gaps without feelers.

[Ben Dover]

[quote="echelon1"][quote="Ben Dover"]Have you considered inserting the 0.016 feeler gauge whith the engine running, it will change the sound of the valve in question, if that is the problem.[/quote]
That is a very good tip!
However, be carefull with inserting a .016" feeler gauge.
The valve could hit the head if it was milled down a few times, and it will be dificult inserting it as it would take the complete gap away.
I would take a less thick .006" feeler gauge which will eliminate clearance thicking as well.

Gindi.[/quote]
______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Think about what you just said. Inserting an 0.016" feeler gauge only eliminates the clearance, and should the valve contact the cylinder head, the head should have been long ago discarded as it has been resurfaced too many times.

[echelon1]

______________________________________________________________________________________________________________
Think about what you just said. Inserting an 0.016" feeler gauge only eliminates the clearance, and should the valve contact the cylinder head, the head should have been long ago discarded as it has been resurfaced too many times.

Yes, 70 years of use takes a toll.
The point where a head is discarted is when the valves start to hit the head.
Other than that there is lots of meat available to skim the head to the point that the valves hit the head.

Gindi.

[echelon1]

G503 lost an excellent experienced tradesman & contributor when Pete Silfven stopped his posts a few years ago.
Hope he is still with us & in good health.

When I signed up on this forum I have scrolled through lots of posts.
Petesilvan is better than good, but others that seems to be disapeared were good as well.
To my opinion Sergio was one of the best.
Not to mention those still posting and obviously have lot's of practical experience.
90% of the contributors have something interesting to share, and not all of them are technicians.
That's how I think about people, most have something interesting to share, and others are capable to learn.

Gindi.

[artificer]

Sergio was one of the best

Yes he was good & entertaining in the bargain, without the need for irrelevant post accumulation, unfortunately now deceased.
Tony Norton, Sean Collins & Alastair Brass [a KIWI who still posts only occassionally] were very good as well.
Perhaps we should compile a list of these guys & see if we can put them up as a sticky?
Their really valuable posts are hidden away years ago, but if new members [particularly] were aware of the names of these guys they could search them out on google. e.g. do a google search on "G503 Tony Norton" & you'll learn more on the Jeep cooling system, lubrication system & manifold heat valve [just a few of Tony's explanatory posts] than reading all 20,000 plus posts of the thin skinned king.

[ElwoodJayBlues]

Hello,
found the culprit:

The exhaust valve of the fourth cylinder is the ticking guy!

I had the engine idling with the fender and the valve cover off.
The valve tappet is spinning. When I grab the tappet with a glove to keep it from spinning (engine running of course), the ticking stops or is always there, depending on the position of the tappet.
When I push against the side of the valve spring with my thumb, the ticking stops.

With the engine stopped and no load on the tappet I can turn it, but I can not move it sideways, so it's not loose.

There are no dents in the valve adjusting screws, they all have a shiny surface.


Another question: Where does the oil in the valve "chamber" come from, I mean, through which hole does the pump bring the oil into the valve chamber?
And should I see oil squirting when I rev up the engine with the cover off?

Thanks,

EJB

[artificer]

There are no dents in the valve adjusting screws, they all have a shiny surface.
Another question: Where does the oil in the valve "chamber" come from, I mean, through which hole does the pump bring the oil into the valve chamber?
And should I see oil squirting when I rev up the engine with the cover off? Thanks, EJB

You should adjust that particular valve the way Pete Silfven suggests & see what happens. There is oil being splashed around, not under pressure, from oil escaping the cam journals plus there is vapour keeping all moist. The cam followers tend to pump oil up through their bores as well.

[Ben Dover]

Did you check to see what happens noisewise with the feeler gauge inserted in each valve? Also, valve guide wear cannot be detected at the tappet, it can only be checked from above.

[ElwoodJayBlues]

John: I tried the methode you suggested: the gap is then identical to the adjustment with the feeler gauge and the ticking stays the same.

Ben: The valve guides and valves are new (December 2011)

EJB

[artificer]

It is possible that particular cam follower has a worn pattern plus it is trying to rotate & that is where your ticking noise is coming from.
Is it possible you have had the engine apart & did not mark or replace parts as they came out originally?

[echelon1]

The tappet should turn all the time.
That's why the tappet surface is domed.
The rotating action is spreading the wear over the entire surface from the tappet.
It is now time to do 2 checks.
Compress the valve spring and remove the half moon clips.(put a rag in the holes to prevent the clips falling in the sump.)
Let the spring compressor in situ and take the valve stem in your fingers and rock it in all directions.
If there is excessive play between valve stem and guide, the valve guide/stem is bad due to to close tolerances when installed new.
If that is OK, the tappet surface and cam lobe should be inspected.
My first guess was a damaged tappet & it looks to be the right guess.
Most likelly the tappet surface is damaged (a piece broken off or something like that) and when the damaged portion of the surface is hit by the lobe the noise is there.
When it turns further the good portion is up and the noise stops.
I have had it ones, and a piece from the surface was broken off, resulting in severe noise and the noise stopped as the tappet turned further and the broken off piece turned away from the lobe.

Gindi.

[ElwoodJayBlues]

Echelon, as I wrote here:

There are no dents in the valve adjusting screws, they all have a shiny surface.


EJB

And there is no play between valve and guide, I did the test you mentioned (compressing spring and remove the clips) on all eight valves, as I checked the valve tappet surface on all eight.