GPW pliers...two.

[Chuck Lutz]

Let's stay on GPW pliers and not bet the farm on RAPD photos....if we have learned anything, it is that they are not 100% guarantee of anything.
I. for one, think that if you bet the farm on the PREWAR connection, then your GPW would have McKaig-Hatch pliers but I doubt that is a 100% guarantee either.
The finishes change for many mfgers from a nickel or chrome to a cadmium or blackened steel or an unfinished or painted appearance and even then you need to know WHEN this occured.

The Ford manuals do give names of potential suppliers, but the Gilmore reference was for a G8T 1 1/2 ton truck....did Ford use the same pliers in all the other factories and which factory produced the truck anyway?

The best I can figure is you need to add ALL these clues and from then you can take a guess....but while the Rockhampton photo may not tell you who made those pliers, it does seem to say that some mfgers did NOT make them

[lucakiki]

What mr. Gilmore(copyright) actually said is buried in threads of some years ago, and could be retrieved by any of those who are expert in the exercise.
Basically he mentioned the famous prewar supplier=likely war time supplier clue, and also the G8T supplier clue which is obviously a much stronger one.

Clue and evidence are obviously a different concept.
If we had evidences rather than just clues, many tool discussions would be redundant.
Any way no reasonable person can read in those far threads more than what was actually said.
Without a document specific to pliers, all we can do is to use those clues to grant plausibility, or to denie plausibility.
What is mandatory is that any single individual uses the same criteria for all the brands discussed, and that he does not use differently strict requirements for different brands.

Once we decide that a given tool is at least plausible, we can also discuss its finish.
We should bear in mind that although some disagree, it is at times possible to change the finish on a tool that is otherwise absolutely the same when just forged.
No use in developing the concept here, nor in discussing its acceptance by different collectors: suffice it to say that it applies to pliers just as well.

[Chuck Lutz]

I know none of us would want a new guy to confuse Jim's mention of "Ford" and the BHM tools with the GPW kit per se....so it may be of some use to restate it in that searching for his original post using the SEARCH function lately has not been all that easy and is probably a bit frustrating for the new guys.

[Nikko]

Hi Folks

I have been away for a while This new GPW plier thread is great

I think Chuck is on to something here regarding the tools
The Ford manuals do give names of potential suppliers, but the Gilmore reference was for a G8T 1 1/2 ton truck....did Ford use the same pliers in all the other factories and which factory produced the truck anyway

It.Luke also has some good points regading the pliers
if a tool is connected to a vehicle in the Ford line, then the tool is simply connected with Ford, period. Ford is and was a large scale industrial machine, concerned with money down to the penny. Unless given a government imposed constraint, a pair of pliers is as good for the G8T and the GPW etc.
Ok. Well, the finish on those pliers is obviously starkly different than the wenches. For my money, MH is out as are most of the Fairmounts I've seen discussed. Danielsons or even CeeTees have potential.


Cheers From The North
Nikko

[lucakiki]

I know none of us would want a new guy to confuse Jim's mention of "Ford" and the BHM tools with the GPW kit per se....so it may be of some use to restate it in that searching for his original post using the SEARCH function lately has not been all that easy and is probably a bit frustrating for the new guys.

Sure, let us restate that once again, although it has been mentioned a bunch of times over the subsequent years.
Some brands were mentioned by Jim Gilmore(copyright) as vendors for G8T .
These brands hence benefit from the war time supplier status, whatever they actually supplied.Period.
Similarly, it has been tried to identify the tools in a supposed staff car toolkit to see if any of those tools might gain a similar war time supplier status.
Personally I think that if a tool was supplied to Ford for one vehicle, this tool is very plausible of having been supplied also for another vehicle requiring an equivalent tool in its toolkit: makes a lot of sense, as long as we set for plausible.
I did list all my known clues for pliers: if anyone has objections or even better if he has something new to add, he is more than welcome given information on GPW pliers has been idling since 2009.

For my money, MH is out ...

Respectable opinion, but would you please tell us why you have that opinion?

[Nikko]

Hi Luca
It was a typo error inn my text i copied from It.Luke (i was just tired after travelling sorry)
The BB i have is like the one inn the bottom picture

need more sleep now

Cheers From The North
Nikko

[lucakiki]

Nikko, I think your forgiveable mistake could actually be connected with what Luke wrote about MH pliers in the GPA tools picture, not about MH pliers in GPW kits in general.
As a matter of fact I was a bit surprised because I have not yet seen anyone rejecting in toto Mc Kaigh pliers as possibly supplied to GPWs.

Luke. As you know I do rely on old threads when the information has not been superseded by new information,or when they are anyway useful in a discussion: always with the concepts in mind, and not the author.
That is why I retrieved this link for you:

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=115845&p=668665

In it, you will find some references and mainly this picture.

[lt.luke]

I remember that thread! I still have not seen another pair of pliers like that for sale. I had forgotten about them! Thanks.

[lucakiki]

Luke, in case you own Jeep Jeep Jeep by Yasuo Ohtsuka there is the very same picture of the GPA toolkit above, with a very good resolution,and uncut:I do not think it might help much for the pliers,though.
The pump appears as one of those "unloved" Walker pumps.

[Chuck Lutz]

I have that book and I noticed the GPA pic seems to be like several which appear to be Unit Inspections of vehicle and equipment issued to it. While I am no expert on the GPA, I noticed the photo included an Axe and Shovel which are generally not a part of a Factory Tool Kit and would support the contention that the photo is of a GPA "in the field" and if that is the case....the origin of any tools in it might be subject to what the unit commander required, i.e. that the tools were not necessarily those which it had been issued with.

Therefore the pump in question might qualify as a "motorpool replacement" but the photo in and of itself is no guarantee of what that vehicle was outfitted with at the FACTORY. The same goes for the pliers in that photo; their SHINY finish does not seem to match the darker look of the rest of the tools (finish) which might indicate they were also replaced at some point in time....ergo they both may be clues, but not evidence of what the FACTORY GPA was outfitted with....and what a GPW would have been outfitted with at the factory either.

[lucakiki]

Agreed: it is a picture of a vehicle after delivery,in service,with all that such a fact implies.