An Interesting Barn Find

[tamnalan]

SB5477 - I disagree about the engineering. They were cheap to produce, have reasonable performance (compared to their 1940's competition), and are simple to repair. They were made with a minimum of steel yet have reasonable interior volume. The body shape gives strength without a lot of mass. Few special tools are needed to work on them. The engines are very lightweight with reasonable power output, gas mileage and reliability, considering what the state of art was when they were designed. Heck, each cam lobe runs two cylinders - how cool is that?!

Good engineering involves many factors - things like materials requirements, production tooling, parts counts, on-road characteristics, economy, reliability. The Beetle provides an excellent compromise across these factors.

Their comfort did suck in northern latitudes in the winter. I was one of those guys who used an ice scraper on the windshield's inside surface while driving along. The only time mine really warmed up on the inside is when I drove at highway speeds for an hour or more. On the other hand I almost never got stuck in the snow, and when I did a couple of friends and I could just lift it up and carry it where needed.

[Retired Road Dog]

My two rides in Germany in 1967. The 59 Beatle ran forever as long as you remembered to keep track of the mileage. No fuel gauge. Snow tires on the front and back. The locals were jealous because we had PX gas ration tickets to only pay 14 cents a gallon while they were up to $2.00 a liter even then. The M151 was a dangerous roll over risk, especially after a few "flippies" of high alcohol content beer. Loved that bug but couldn't ship it home.

[Steve Webb]

That is a nice looking one, they were fairly popular down here because of the open top. My brother had a beetle in high school and they used to take the Sat's in a building downtown. He had gone to lunch with a couple buddies and when he was driving back to park a bunch of people were waving at him, he was waving back until he heard someone say your on fire. All his wiring in the engine compartment burned up but they got it out and the bug was repaired. My neighbor 2 houses down is German and she was ticked to find her VW has a Chrysler motor in it.

[Cobra Doc]

I'm trying really hard to be even- handed and think of a German product which I wouldn't touch but I just can't think of one.
Derek.

RG pistols.

[The Raven]

I have a vanagon and a BMW car as well as a BMW motorcycle......the vanagon is the biggest piece of crap I've ever owned. It's cheaply built, rusts like a nail in the ocean, plastic everywhere and I generally call VWs the bastard children of the Nazi Regime. I always laugh at the photos of SS officers driving the Beetle. I swear that VW hires all the flunky labor frow BMW and the others. I own the vanagon because there is nothing else like it and it's a great traveling vehicle. I do generally hate VWs though.

On the subject as well, perhaps we can convince some of these Europeans that us Americans are better at rebuilding our cars than their mechanics....someone can make a killing!!!

Here we go..

[Retired Road Dog]

My favorite VW moment was the bug, a case of German Beer "flippies", three other 19 year old GI's, going over the Alps to Insbruck, Austria in a snow storm and sliding sideways down the mountain road....and not really worrying about it. The VW brought us through alive to the Austria Border Guards

[SB5477]

OK guys, keep those VWs if you like them. I like them myself. They need servicing often and people like to spend money on them. They are not bad from the business viewpoint, I just don't need one myself. Some Porsche parts were delivered by the owner to me for his 964. Most of them were not made in Germany. They were showing Made in Israel, Made in HongKong or Made in Hungary labels. Probably the cheapest they could find. Of course the owner will pay the inflated German price, because of the "legendary" Űberquality. Derek, the engine job on the Cayman was out of warranty because the experts at Porsche decided the car was not driven normally and according to design parameters. He drove it at 180km/h/112MPH when the damage occured. The repair was not cheap. What do you think this guy will buy another again? I have nothing against them I just do not like to follow something blindly even if it is German.

[Derek Eddlestone]

OK guys, keep those VWs if you like them. I like them myself. They need servicing often and people like to spend money on them. They are not bad from the business viewpoint, I just don't need one myself. Some Porsche parts were delivered by the owner to me for his 964. Most of them were not made in Germany. They were showing Made in Israel, Made in HongKong or Made in Hungary labels. Probably the cheapest they could find. Of course the owner will pay the inflated German price, because of the "legendary" Űberquality. Derek, the engine job on the Cayman was out of warranty because the experts at Porsche decided the car was not driven normally and according to design parameters. He drove it at 180km/h/112MPH when the damage occured. The repair was not cheap. What do you think this guy will buy another again? I have nothing against them I just do not like to follow something blindly even if it is German.

My VW model in the UK is a Mk 4 GTi and typically the brakes and cam belt need replacing at 50K miles. The brakes (Pads & Discs/Rotors, ABS rings) I changed myself and bought the parts from a franchised parts outlet called GSF parts (German, Swedish & French) which offer either OEM or 'budget' parts. The difference is only down to how long they last but by law they must be made to a certain spec for safety reasons. Typically the 'budget' range is fitted if the car is going to be sold or the owner is struggling a bit but either way they're cheaper than VW supplied items. My Brembo brakes however were also sold to VW because they don't make their own and I'd pay an extra premium for getting them in a VW marked box so I see this as a genuine saving that I'd be silly not to make. I let the dealer sort out things like the cam belt because it comes with a warranty when changed with the water pump and tensioner. A cheaper alternative is not to change these extra items and hope that their failure doesn't cause the belt to break. When I asked how many people go for the cheaper option, the reply was "what do you think" with a roll of the eyes. It's a car that I can do a certain amount on and I enjoy the work but I'm not going to work down to a budget and cut corners. I'm aware that German cars aren't the cheapest but I've only ever had the 'Made in Germany' versions as opposed to 'Made in Mexico/Brazil/Honduras etc etc' and I've looked after them which is what has given me my positive view of them. If we exchanged views on my ownership of British made Austins, Sunbeams and Fords which were designed and built as crap, I think we'd be in total agreement.

If I remember correctly the 964s were made at least twenty years ago and if all of the previous owners had sourced the spare parts at the lowest price instead of the required quality, is it fair to blame the marque when the car fails because of it's cheapskate owner? May Cayman was brand new and has been serviced by the book but because I don't do the service interval mileage, it gets serviced on a 'time' basis and is over-serviced if anything. It is expensive but I knew that when I placed the order and I know people who own Porsche vehicles although they struggle with the cost and look to cut corners where they can. Porsche collect my car when it needs servicing and leave a new 911 in the drive probably hoping to tempt me to buy one but they call it a courtesy car. I know that I pay for all but I also get the peace of mind that nothing will ever go wrong and the car has been on the illegal side of 150 mph before you think it doesn't get 'used'. Even the legendary Rolls-Royce models can't be 100% bullet proof if not maintained but I'm getting the impression that you are working on old junkers that the owners run on a tight budget and it's colouring your judgement unfairly.

Derek.

[SB5477]

If I remember correctly the 964s were made at least twenty years ago and if all of the previous owners had sourced the spare parts at the lowest price instead of the required quality, is it fair to blame the marque when the car fails because of it's cheapskate owner?

Maybe I was not clear,but the parts were in Original Porsche packaging bought from the dealer.

All right Derek, all I am working on is old junk (The Cayman S, I mentioned was two years old, after the blow up even the owner called it junk) and we have all junk here etc. If that is your opinion, fine. But you missed the point. The point is: People should not believe in the superiority of something just because it is made in a certain country, Germany in this case. If you want to follow them no matter what, its up to you. We have lots of people here like you, we were under German influence for a couple of centuries and nothing wrong with that, I am just not one of them. I like to end this discussion. Have Fun, Good Luck and enjoy your Porsche.

P.S. I have to go, a 2009 Porsche Cayenne arrived on a flatbed with tranny trouble.

[Retired Road Dog]

The originals

[Lee Bishop]

Beats me how this went from “cool find” to an argument on German engineering so quickly. I’m sticking with the original post and saying I envy your find and would love to get my hands on a good-condition Thing someday.
All cars have a dedicated group of fans who think it’s a perfect vehicle (for example, I know some people who think that the Ford Mustang is perfect, but my wife bought a new one a few years ago and we had nothing but problems with it and I was very happy when she finally got rid of it). How many people here on the G would argue with someone listing the frailties of the WW2 Jeep (of which there are many supporting issues for the argument) and would refuse to accept that our beloved Jeep design had a lot of problems?

[zepher11]

Nice find. I guess it is the "thing" to do as I know two people in our area that just picked up VW Things. I had not seen one for some time, but now they seem to be popping up here and there. They aren't my "thing", but I know they have a loyal following.

[ElwoodJayBlues]

Actually you can find these VW181 Kübel very cheap over here.
But 99% of them are so badly rusted and destroyed that hardly anyone wants them.

EJB

[raymond]

I guess I'm just not that lucky The only thing I ever find in barns is mice and dust

Raymond

[The Raven]

Yup, it is a nice thing...just keep it out of the rain, salt environ. I too wish I could find a nice barn find some day.....all I ever find are motorcycles, jeeps and trailers