Screwdriver Identification

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Screwdriver Identification

Postby Chuck Lutz » Sun Jan 29, 2012 4:23 pm

Maybe we can work on identifying screwdrivers we are on the lookout for with some investigative work. So far we know the IRWINs started with ink stamps on the handle and nothing else, making it hard for us to identify one that LOOKS like an IRWIN but has no discernable markings on the handle. the BIG question we need to answer is...were there OTHER makers who used a design close enough to mistake them for IRWINs or did they have a unique enough design to make the ID possible with no ink stamp left?

This issue with the ink stamp all raises the question about any other period correct screwdriver with no discernable marking on it...could TOBRIN or FURNEY-SHIRWIN or FAIRMOUNT also began production with a marking that could be lost over time?

Let's start with the obvious:
IRWIN...you can find plenty on each of the various ones with ink-stamps or roll-stamped shanks in the posts on the g503. The Ink Stamped style has been verified and the others are still MAYBE for a WWII jeep.
TOBRIN....noted on the Willys drawing... they were marked in the 1930s with the SIZE on the tip so the ink-stamping question is a moot one with the TOBRIN. Look for the barber-pole roll-stamping on the shank.
FURNEY-SHIRWIN: We have not seen one of these, so maybe the FEDERAL note refers to their trademark or the marking on their products. (see FEDERAL below).
FEDERAL: In looking at Jeff's FEDERAL marked examples, note that the ends of the wood slabs are half-moon, almost rounded where as the IRWIN are different. You can compare photos to see that it would be easy to tell the IRWIN from the FEDERAL. I say this because the FEDERAL seems to have been produced with a name that is actuall STAMPED into the wooden slab. Sanding would eliminate that of course and if EARLY production was done with an ink-stamp it might be missing today. So the FEDERAL needs a bit more investigation. I have a pic of another new-looking FEDERAL roll-stamped on the shank but....it looks to be the IRWIN design! (I think they merged post war...anyone remember that???)
Federal Screwdrivers JAB.jpg
Federal Screwdrivers JAB.jpg (97.11 KiB) Viewed 963 times

FAIRMOUNT: Ah yes! The "missing link"...no one has posted a pic of one to my knowledge....so a theory here of mine is that perhaps they were produced with an ink-stamped marking and over the years that was lost. So a FAIRMOUNT could be mistaken for an IRWIN or perhaps another mfger who used an ink stamp...

So let's look into the ones with NO marking on them...
First the IRWIN is the same as roll stamped IRWINs, but any other mfger who used that design could have an ink-stamped one of their mistakenly identified as an IRWIN.
The TOBRIN....as far as the 1930s they put the size on the blade tip so you can't mistake an unmarked one for a TOBRIN. In addition, the TOBRIN has a uniquely DIFFERENT shape to the wooden slabs from the IRWIN!
Tobrin Screwdriver Handle.jpg
Tobrin Screwdriver Handle.jpg (24.74 KiB) Viewed 963 times

The FEDERAL by the way, seems to mimic the design of the TOBRIN. Therefore, an unmarked screwdriver that has that TOBRIN/FEDERAL deisgn is NOT a TOBRIN since they put the size on the blade!
I am listing Roger's VLCHEK because it is the SAME design as the TOBRIN/FEDERAL. It has the stamped-in marking on the handle.
VLCHEK Screwdriver Roger.jpg
VLCHEK Screwdriver Roger.jpg (33.28 KiB) Viewed 963 times

So...we have nothing on the FURNEY-SHIRWIN so if Fred's theory is correct then the F-S is the one we see marked "FEDERAL". I believe his idea is the right one! Unless someone has one so marked? Can anyone post a pic or two?
Then we have the FAIRMOUNT...same thing, no known example has been posted so it may be of either of the above styles or an altogether different design.

I own a LENOX with a sideways "6" and the name on the shank...for next to nothing I could not resist. Joe Potter told me he found one like it in the tool box of an MB he purchased...and it is otherwise close to the design (a slimmer shank) with the design of the slabs of wood CLOSE but not EXACTLY like the TOB/FED/VLCHEK design. I include it so we can use it to identify others...is it correct? Who knows, I doubt it.

If others can post pics of any others or especially of the ones we don't have pics of above (FURNEY-SHIRWIN or FAIRMOUNT) or even others, we can maybe make it possible to identify for sure those that appear unmarked.

I have another thought about this: We know VLCHEK was a supplier to many other sellers such as Western Auto Stores, or even car companies so I am not ready to rule out the idea they produced some screwdrivers for some of the companies we have listed above!!
(Edited with Fred's post in mind...thanks!)
Last edited by Chuck Lutz on Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:57 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113232 (est.)
GPW 85976 12/9/42 Louisville, KY. USA unknown
GPW 108552 4/21/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)
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Re: Screwdriver Identification

Postby Fred Coldwell » Sun Jan 29, 2012 6:21 pm

Hi Chuck:

I was going to start yet another screwdriver thread to post my reply to your post in this thread, but then I decided -- what the heck -- I'll just post my reply here.

1. There are an awful lot of very useful (to me) photos showing features of 11" screwdrivers that are handy for distinguishing and identifying them in another screwdriver thread titled "SCREWDRIVER VARIATIONS" that you started on Mon Oct 06, 2008 at 8:17 pm. Just two days ago, on Friday January 27, 2012, Wingnutt posted some great screwdriver photos there, and it would be a shame to not somehow incorporate them into this new screwdriver thread. You ought to copy and paste them (along with his text) into this thread as they are spot-on pertinent.

2. Could you please post here a photo of your Lenox "sideways-6" screwdriver? I would like to see what it actually looks like, study its characteristics and add your photo to my database. Thanks! :D

3. Willys drawing A-375 lists Federal in parenthesis immediately after Furney-Shirwin on that company's entry line, which makes me think Federal might have been the trademark or trade name used by Furney-Shirwin for its line of screwdrivers instead of being a separate company. Could you please check the U.S. Patent and Trademark Office online data base for me and to see whether my trademark/trade name idea is correct? Thanks again! :D
Happy Jeep Trails,

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Re: Screwdriver Identification

Postby Chuck Lutz » Sun Jan 29, 2012 9:53 pm

Hi Fred:
I was hoping to start a clean thread and not get off on a WHEN/IF the shank markings on IRWINs and let that dominate the thread...and let this one concentrate on other types...but I agree, there is good intel on it! I will look for a LENOX photo or get one added to the thread. Now that you mention it I realized that your observation is spot on....perhaps there are NONE with the Furney-Shirwin logo on them, just their FEDERAL marking as if it was the name of the line they were offering. I think I will go edit the original post to reflect that as I believe you are right!

Here are Wingnutts pics of the IRWINs and I agree that the 3rd one will possibly turn out to also be an IRWIN unless another mfger copied their characteristics 100%:
IRWIN Ink, USA, Unmarked, FSN.jpg
IRWIN Ink, USA, Unmarked, FSN.jpg (86.35 KiB) Viewed 929 times


IRWIN Ink, USA, Unmarked, FSN (2).jpg
IRWIN Ink, USA, Unmarked, FSN (2).jpg (104.49 KiB) Viewed 929 times


Irwin Ink, USA, Unmarked, FSN (3).jpg
Irwin Ink, USA, Unmarked, FSN (3).jpg (87.9 KiB) Viewed 929 times


I haven't found the Furney-Shirwin (FEDERAL) trademark link yet....I will try this week, but work will get in the way...
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113232 (est.)
GPW 85976 12/9/42 Louisville, KY. USA unknown
GPW 108552 4/21/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)
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Re: Screwdriver Identification

Postby Chuck Lutz » Tue Jan 31, 2012 10:08 am

Just when the idea that FURNEY-SHIRWIN (FEDERAL) screwdrivers were thought to be a screwdriver made by FURNEY-SHIRWIN that was labeled FEDERAL (perhaps as a trade name or model?) something else pops up to refute that, so is this the company that made the one in the Willys Drawing or were they owned by Furney-Shirwin or what?:

The Federal Tool Company in Springfield, MA made this style screwdriver and as noted, they are at the very least "pre 1948"....maybe we can find more on this company!
http://www.moma.org/collection/browse_r ... rt_order=1
(Click the NUMBER under the photo to see the REVERSE side of the handle with the FEDERAL marking!) OL...here are three of them:
CRI_228790.jpg
CRI_228790.jpg (19.55 KiB) Viewed 858 times


These sure look a lot like the ones we have seen with FEDERAL on the handle:
Federal Screwdrivers JAB.jpg
Federal Screwdrivers JAB.jpg (97.11 KiB) Viewed 881 times

Federal 4 Handle.jpg
Federal 4 Handle.jpg (23.38 KiB) Viewed 881 times


If anyone happens to be in the Museum of Modern Art (MoMA) in New York City...perhaps a couple pics of the markings would be helpful!
Last edited by Chuck Lutz on Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:10 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113232 (est.)
GPW 85976 12/9/42 Louisville, KY. USA unknown
GPW 108552 4/21/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)
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Federal Screwdriver

Postby lucakiki » Tue Jan 31, 2012 11:21 am

Last time I was at the MOMA was in 2009, the week the moderation sent me and another guy on vacation...
However, this is the picture of the tool.
Image
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WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
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42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

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Re: Screwdriver Identification

Postby Wingnutt » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:13 pm

Has anyone ever found any information on a Furney-Shirwin company? I asked that on the drawing thread earlier, because I couldn't find out anything. I checked several sources, against Furney, Shirwin, Furney-Shirwin, and even Furney-Sherwin (as in Sherwin-Williams), to include the US Patent and Trademark Office, and found zip. Since it looks like the Federal Tool Co. built these screwdrivers, maybe that whole annotation, not just the parentheses, was a mistake.

The sane explantion is that Furney-Shirwin was an actual company that never trademarked their tools, never sold a single screwdriver to Willys or QMC or ORD, and soon went out of business, leaving behind for posterity only a single bizarre engineer's note on a long-lost Willys-Overland drawing, and it's just a strange coincidence that the company happened to share an 'irwin' in their name with one of the names of the other three screwdriver manufacturers..., but 'Furney-Shirwin' sounds an awful lot like "Furnish Irwin" to me.

As in something to the effect of, "...furnish Irwin, or Federal, and I'll get back to you on Fairmount..."

Hey - if N.Q.C. is shift left alphanumeric code for O.R.D. - I am ruling nothing out! :)
Last edited by Wingnutt on Tue Jan 31, 2012 2:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Screwdriver Identification

Postby Chuck Lutz » Tue Jan 31, 2012 1:20 pm

It appears that not ALL of the FEDERAL-marked screwdrivers are the SAME!
While the ones with markings on the wood have a distinctly DIFFERENT design of the wooden slabs, the FEDERAL-marked ones with the roll-stamping on the shank (see FEDERAL 4" on this one, have a design that looks very much like the IRWIN.

Early marking on WOOD:
Federal Screwdrivers JAB.jpg
Federal Screwdrivers JAB.jpg (97.11 KiB) Viewed 856 times


Marking on SHANK:
FEDERAL #4 8in. size.jpg
FEDERAL #4 8in. size.jpg (75.69 KiB) Viewed 856 times

FEDERAL #4 8in..jpg
FEDERAL #4 8in..jpg (38.56 KiB) Viewed 856 times
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113232 (est.)
GPW 85976 12/9/42 Louisville, KY. USA unknown
GPW 108552 4/21/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)
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Re: Screwdriver Identification

Postby Silly's MB » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:08 am

I might actually be of some use on this subject as a Federal 6 came through my door today. Its in pretty bad condition but you can make out the sideways 6 and federal.I'll get the kids to bed and take some pictures and measurements.
1942 Willys MB August http://www.flickr.com/photos/rust-bucke ... hotostream

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Re: Screwdriver Identification

Postby Silly's MB » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:02 pm

I am not sure how much these will help. The Federal 6 that arrived today is in quite poor shape but I have taken some photographs side by side with an Irwin (Gov stock No.). The tip has been ground down a bit by PO so not too sure on the original shape.
The shaft is thinner (0.350") than the Irwin (0.380).
The Federal handle at its widest point is 1.360" The Irwin is 1.285" (metal to metal)
The Federal handle feels and is chunkier.
The handle looks to be in its original condition and has nothing stamped into the wood but I think Ink stamping would of gone by now.

I am trying to upload but am getting this message

"Sorry, the board attachment quota has been reached."

I will load them on to a different thread and they can be copied and pasted as required.
1942 Willys MB August http://www.flickr.com/photos/rust-bucke ... hotostream

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Re: Screwdriver Identification

Postby Silly's MB » Wed Feb 01, 2012 3:04 pm

I still can't post pictures but here is a link to some.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/rust-bucket/sets/72157629140665653/with/6805949769/
1942 Willys MB August http://www.flickr.com/photos/rust-bucke ... hotostream

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Re: Screwdriver Identification

Postby EAMount » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:35 am

I thought I would post some photos of a set of NOS Federal 6 inch screwdrivers I recently picked up. They are now stored at the new MOMA (Mount's Military Artifacts) :D

Some observations:

Overall length is 11 1/4"

The handles are oak and are stamped but not too deep. I would expect that they would wear off after extended use.

The shanks are not marked at all. The shanks are coated with a Japan black type coating that has been removed in some areas during finish sanding/grinding.

The box is only marked with the address of Federal Tool Co. Inc., Springfield Mass. USA. No other address or other information is on or in the box.

Let me know if you have any other questions about this style.

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Re: Screwdriver Identification

Postby Wingnutt » Mon Apr 02, 2012 11:40 am

Wow! Very nice find, EA. :mrgreen:
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Re: Screwdriver Identification

Postby Chuck Lutz » Mon Apr 02, 2012 3:52 pm

Nice Score!

So...as of 3/11/42 (?) the Willys Drawing was amended to accept F/S "Federal" screwdrivers.....but that leaves us wondering when they changed from the info stamped on the wood slab style...to the roll-stamped info on the shank....

Were they BOTH available from 3/42 to the end of the war? Did the roll stamled style superseed the wood-stamped style? I have one of the kind that is stamped on the wood but I don't even HAVE a Willys and my jeeps are 42 and 43 GPWs.....

Seems like we get some good intel and then that raises a couple more questions....thanks for great pics!!!!!
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113232 (est.)
GPW 85976 12/9/42 Louisville, KY. USA unknown
GPW 108552 4/21/43 Louisville, KY. USA 20371278
Bantam T3 4582 10/29/42 USA 0173499 (est.)
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Re: Screwdriver Identification

Postby lt.luke » Sat Apr 21, 2012 7:09 pm

I wonder if the Federals that EAMount picked up are connected with the Wright Field Plomb tools? Note the WF in the marking.
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Re: Screwdriver Identification

Postby Wingnutt » Sun Apr 22, 2012 4:37 am

Very good and interesting catch, luke. I don't know enough about that subject to do anything except get myself in trouble. My vague understanding was that Wright Field started supplying (and stamping) other tools as well, which would seem to work in these FEDERAL screwdrivers' favor. On the other hand, was the 'WF' always accompanied by a number (e.g., WF-37)? Anybody out there well read on this?

Now that you've pointed it out, might the old 'War Finish' debate be in play here?
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