North Bay V.P.

[softskin_driver]

Are you saying that we do not have a right, in this country, to question our leaders and/or leadership?
No you just did! This is my country too and you don't need to lecture me on the people’s rights or my god given rights to exercise yours.
Just speak your mind. I say question all authority and I live by that. Anybody that knows me will tell you that.

Did I hear this correctly Softskin_Driver? No and See my Signature it is signed Dave Ball.
You posted: "This is your club why ask why? Instead volunteer to make it better for everyone including you and yours and those yet to come."
Mike could have ran for the North Bay position against Rory and John or Sonny even editor, Secretary treasurer or President. These are all open MVCC positions and all MVCC members in good standing that meet the bylaw requirements to serve as an MVCC board member can put themselves on the ballot as well as run as a write-in. I am sure Mike would meet all the requirements.

Are you also saying that people are not volunteering? No you just did!

Maybe you add a new region, so your guy or gal could run unopposed in one of the new regions and you could put another person against the opposition.
The fact is I am unaware of any conspiracies such as you are suggesting no one has approached me or had swayed my vote to split the area. I stated my reasons for my vote. The truth is you were all for Rory running for the board and Rory is in the running and John is running of his own accord as well and has posted his platforms. Did anyone publically conspire to cause a particular result like you are suggesting while you were on the board? If so what would be the reason this is just a vehicle collectors club? Is the juice really worth the squeeze? How?
Do this under the cover of an “Officers” (Board) meeting and not invite all the officers or at least don’t invite the ones that don’t agree with you.
Who was not invited? All participating board members took part in the vote on the split as far as I know.
I am one vote and I voted as I did for my own reasons as stated. As for the other board members they probably have their own reasons which I can guarantee will more than likely not be the same as mine. I vote my mind.
Making sure that the MEMBERS would not know or have a chance to be nominated for office in these new regions until after the ballots were printed, was this what you intended?
Rory knew about the split in plenty of time for someone to run against Sonny if that’s what you’re talking about I am sure he told you and Mike as well am I wrong? Everyone at the GMM had a chance to throw there hat in the ring to run for the VP positions in their area all the board positions including editor are on the ballot. Because the ballots came out a month late everyone had time to nominate themselves or a friend. I find it upsetting you bring up getting info out to the members this has been something the board was blocked from doing until June. Incidentally you have a newsletter because I paid for it to be printed hopefully I will get reimbursed maybe for the Camp Roberts flyers I was asked to pay for as well.
I have a simple question:
What would be the proper way to make sure that you manage to hold on to the majority of the Officers in an election?
Dave I read your resignation letter if you were so sure of a person or persons controlling the board’s vote or building empires you should not have stepped down or taken yourself out of the running of future elections and I can read between the lines as good as anybody and the conspiracies you are not willing to openly speak about don’t exist. Who is it you think is holding on to a majority of officers? Maybe it’s more about someone or some group upset about losing a majority of officers or a quorum vote? And if any of that is true what would the motivation be? This is such a stupid argument for a club like ours don’t you think?
I am not sure I answered or can answer your questions and it has been a long day it started with my neighbour having a garage fire and the smoke stinking my house out pretty bad.
I am tired so please forgive any errors in syntax.

[13th Armored]

Did I touch a nerve?
Softskin_Driver you said: "Everyone at the GMM had a chance to throw there hat in the ring to run for the VP positions in their area all the board positions including editor are on the ballot."

Are you saying that the North Bay region split was announced at the General Membership Meeting at April Tower Park?

Are you saying that you knew before April Tower Park of the split?

Did 4 of you acting as a quorum of officers decide to make the split?

[softskin_driver]

Dave if you touched a nerve it was not mine.
No I am not saying that at all you are insinuating it to draw a response. You were standing there in The GMM at Tower did you hear it announced? Do you talk in circles most of the time or just some of the time? Asking questions you know the answers to is that a tactic you are deploying to trip me up? No it was after Tower but has been discussed for years. But you knew that. And you know the answer to your last question it was an unanimous.
Let me ask you a question and I am asking it with no subterfuge meant. Dave why does this bug you so much? You know this split has been discussed for some time now and it was discussed because the Western North Bay MVCC members need representation on the board so why is that an issue now? Would you have voted to deny those members a voice on the board?

[13th Armored]

Well, I was a Vice-President for a number of years before I resigned. In that entire time, to my knowledge, there was never a mention of splitting the North Bay in any meeting that I attended, Board or Membership. In all that time you were not an officer! Can you show me in the minutes or Board resolution where that happened? Again, to my direct knowledge that never happened.

You stated:

"I voted to split the North Bay, east and west and add a VP to represent the MVCC members in that area after reading the NBMVC forum. I believe the MVCC can do a much better job in reaching out to the Military Vehicle collectors on the west side of the North Bay if there is a VP supporting that goal who lives closer and attends those events."

Are you saying that the current MVCC Area V.P. was not up to the task? Perhaps he should have looked to the NBMVC's forum on this website for help! Maybe asked for "volunteers"? Are you also saying that the NBMVC's forum is not representing the members of the North Bay?

In my mind they have the most up to date event list for their area!

If the MEMBERS came to the board with a request to have their own Vice-President, then as an officer, I would have looked into the merits of their case and voted accordingly. In this case did the MEMBERS (you know at least some) come before this special meeting and request it? Where is your documentation of the request and meeting? Who attended?

Was the vote unanimous between the four of you?

There is N.I.I.F.M. except honesty to the members who pay for the club!

[John Neuenburg]

Wow you'd think there is a big paycheck in all this....

There has been talk over the years about creating more VP positions for two separate reasons:
1. Not have an overly large physical territory for a VP to think about
2. Have a larger number of voting officers to smooth out votes and decisions the Board makes.

Regarding #2, it is important to remember that ALL officers are elected by ALL members. VPs are not elected by only their district members. All officers must consider the good of the entire MVCC when they make decisions. The VPs are involved in local issues but then switch hats to help run the whole club. A larger Board will tend to better represent the club as a whole. This is true in any organization, county, state, or country. Let's say we have eight officers. One catches syphilis and becomes insane. Now 12.5% of the Board is insane. If we have 12 officers, only 8.3% are insane. Pretty neat. A more realistic example is when the Board has a meeting where a couple officers can't make it. That would mean a very small number would do the deciding and this might not work out the way the entire Board or the MVCC wants. So the more the merrier, but the challenge there is just getting enough volunteers to run for the positions. Regarding that, it's not a big problem if some day a VP doesn't run and nobody steps up to fill the vacancy IF the Bylaws are structured to address that. For example if the Officer Quorum was set to be a "majority" rather than a fixed number like we have now.

Changing the boundaries to create a Sacramento-Stockton-East area makes sense. How many regular events do we see happening there and in the Sierras? None. Would things perk up if we had a VP living there? Probably. I don't mean to cut anybody's grass but how about a Gold Country Run on Hwy 49? Lake Tahoe Run? Who is stirring up our Nevada members? Can we find a POC who will organize a Reno Air Races display and invite Californians? Does the air show still happen at Truckee? Old Town Sacramento Display? There is a big air show in Sacto too. I would go to some of those events.

[Kurt Lesser]

"Perhaps he should have looked to the NBMVC's forum on this website for help! Maybe asked for "volunteers"? Are you also saying that the NBMVC's forum is not representing the members of the North Bay?"

Please notice that the North Bay Forum is it's own heading in the Military Vehicle Club Boards section of the "G". This forum represents the members of the NBMVC. It does NOT represent them to the MVCC.

The very reason we considered creating the position for a VP in that area was because there wasn't adequate coverage there, and we believed that one VP was not enough. The MV owners in this area have remained distant from the MVCC but we are making an effort to include them now by creating this position. Who currently represents the members of the NBMVC to the MVCC? No one. We're looking to change that and welcome them into the MVCC. We'd also like to initiate some new events in one of the most beautiful parts of the state.

We have been distracted by events over the last few months and have lost the focus on the vehicles we all enjoy, the thing that brought us together in the first place. How do arguments and complaining and grousing about not crossing "T"s and dotting "I"s benefit the guy who wants to drive his truck thru the mud? How does it help him find the elusive part he needs desperately to finish his "Master Class" restoration. Plain and simple, it doesn't. We need to return to enjoying what we do and the company of like minded individuals. We can squabble and jockey for positiion forever but it's time to stop and smell the mogas and diesel again.

[softskin_driver]

Dave I have enjoyed our friendly discussion but unless you want to come out and say what’s really bugging you we will be going in circles forever.
I heard back when Nancy left the board there was some talk about needing someone in the west side of the north bay because of the vacuum left after Nancy who did such a good job organizing events in the north bay decided not to run again. Sonny does a great job but like John said the more the merrier I agree with that.
Geographically the North Bay is a very large area and another VP is a great idea and the decision for the addition should not be taken personally, it will only make the MVCC better for all.
I think John hit the nail on the head with his explanation and either Rory or John will do an excellent job for the members in that area.
You are right the NBMVC (Mike) does a great job with getting there events onto their G503 forum, the MVCC can enhance that and get that same info out to many more members.
I think (my best guess) you are upset because up until John threw his hat in the ring Rory was running unopposed and that the split was fine as long as that was the case.
You keep coming back with the quorum of 4 questions I think you have an issue I would like you to come out and speak your mind on that subject.
If you won't or feel you can't for some reason lay your cards on the table and say what’s really bugging you then we are done with this discussion.

[John Neuenburg]

Reminder that All members vote for All officers. If you haven't voted yet, don't leave any choices uncircled unless you don't support either competitor or don't care about unknown-to-you write-ins.

I say this because a member who already voted then read this in my platform statement (late), sent me a note admitting he didn't vote for any VPs outside of his district.

[John Neuenburg]

Not trying to hijack the thread but this is a good time to mention something.

In case anyone reading all this is considering running for a VP slot in the future and sees references to "organizing events" but is not the type to like organizing events, that is OK. Over the years we have had VPs who do the job differently. At this time there is no hard and fast rule how to do it. The main requirements are to make the minimum number of meetings to deal with club business, write articles in the newsletter (hopefully monthly) mentioning upcoming events in your area, and include a calendar listings for it and the website. Members in the area will ideally feed the VP info about these events, but often nobody contacts the VP. A recurring problem is events become known too late to make the newsletter deadline. This is sometimes because a non-MVer event promoter finds out about us too late before inviting us. But often these are annual events that someone in our club knows about. Since the VP is no mind-reader, a really good VP will be proactive and look for future events by contacting a few active members and asking what they know. Another technique is to look at last years newsletters for events that are likely to repeat, then contact the former POC to find out if it's happening again.

I personally don't think a VP needs to be an active event organizer or its POC. Sometimes they are because that is in their skill set. Ideally there will be a few people in the VPs territory who like to organize events. If not then maybe the VP ought to step up and list himself as POC even if he knows he can't attend. He can then try to recruit a more hands-on POC.

My 2 cents as a former VP twice.

[Mac]

John, Does the Mvcc only post upcoming events in California ?? The SOMVCC has a yearly meet at Indian Mary, which is only 2 hours north of the border !!-----------------Mac

[willy]

Why are you all hiding behind a alias
Like 13th Armored, Mitymite99, Cowboy Bob
We know who you are do we need to expose you first.
Willy
Sig your darn post if you mean what you say or say nothing
Dave Parmly (13th Armoured) you voted Randy King (Mitymite99) off the board then resign and started a other club and became president
Why not focus on your new club and leave us alone
Willy

[John Neuenburg]

John, Does the Mvcc only post upcoming events in California ?? The SOMVCC has a yearly meet at Indian Mary, which is only 2 hours north of the border !!-----------------Mac

I am very confident the answer is NO! We'll post news of whatever can benefit MVCC members! If you are looking for more folks at I.M. it is a good idea. Good question! I've put some Tower Park news in Gee forums for clubs in OR and SoCal. Just because that is the annual big West Coast meet doesn't make it special in that regard. Even Frank as an Orygunian is still a MVCCer and is welcome to submit articles and calendar listings and I would think Dave B. will be happy to publish them, as will Sean for the web calendar. Same goes for Steve Greenberg to the north. Heck if it were me I would publish event news submitted by non-MVCC members too if it benefitted members (even from Bob Harris hah hah - "in joke").

But question - do we have to get our shots before we step into Banjoland, HUH????

[13th Armored]

Dave since you don't seem to understand what I am talking about, let's go back.

First this thread was started by mfrance on April 28th with the title "North Bay V.P." where he stated:
"Rory Burke is going to run against Sunny Hansen for the North Bay V.P."

Then on May 11th (almost 2 weeks later), mamalesser wrote:
Dave, things are looking up! It looks as if there will be a printed newsletter near the 1st of June...This should(lord willing and the creek don't rise) include the official ballot. The North Bay V.P position will be split between the "West" and East" Sonny Hanson running for the East position and Rory Burke running for the West position."

The next day, May 12th, Kurt Lesser wrote:
"I hate to be the naysayer here but the bylaws require a new board position to be "by resolution of the board". Without a board meeting and a vote we can't just arbitrarily change the number of Vice Presidents postiions. I like the idea but since we're being held with our feet to the fire we will follow the bylaws."

Also on May 12th, John Neuenburg wrote:
"By "resolution of the Board" he means Sec. 3.12. That logically means a majority vote of a (4 person) quorum at a Special Meeting, which can be by phone. It should occur this month so the proper ballot can be published in June."

Then on May 23rd, softskin_driver wrote:
"I am not sure of anything anymore except that the MVCC board is going to meet very soon and that a mailed by US postal carrier June newsletter will be out very soon with ballots."

I guess I could go on but to me it is very clear, contrary to your statement:

I think (my best guess) you are upset because up until John threw his hat in the ring Rory was running unopposed and that the split was fine as long as that was the case.

that Rory was running for North Bay V.P. against Sonny, not for the as yet nonexistent North Bay West or East.

John did not even announce his candidacy until:
"I am Running for MVCC Office
Postby John Neuenburg » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:21 pm
This is to announce I am running for a Vice President position and I am asking for your vote."

So you had not held a Board meeting as of May 23rd. Perhaps you can show us the minutes from that meeting, the date and place it was held and who attended.
Otherwise it looks like the action taken was to change the dynamics of the election in a certain persons favor.
Does this help you to understand the nature of my concern?
If you would like to see other issues please see the thread I started on the MVCC Elections!

[mfrance]

I am chiming in on this debate; I too see no reason for a east /west split. Sunny Hansen filled in when Nancy Hoskins. stepped down. Now Rory Burke stepped up to run against Sunny Hansen for V.P, as well as John Nuenburg. Then I hear there is a split district? Was Rory informed? He should have the right to say if he wanted a split, I personally never heard of Sunny wanting a split.I now have recieved my news letter and see a split is on the ballot (why). I encourage this area to have a Hands-on V.P. for the members. The person who is the (V.P) representation should get more involved with their members and non-members of the district to see what is happening, how to better things, and what can be contributed, etc. If you can use a phone and computer then there is no reason to say I don't know what is happening in the military vehicle community. I just don't get the timing of this so called split when I have not heard from one member in the (North Bay) ever discuss this to my knowledge.
I ask all board members to go out and attend a local event or two in your area, or even other area's; get to know the people in your club; I see a lot of disconnect and hear say than hard facts and real conversation other than on the internet.
I mean No disrespect to V.P's But some are not doing the club a sevice by not writing an article for the newsletter for month's at a time?. I think When you take a position represent it to the fullest as possibe for your members , you are the officer.

Second, as to the slander of the North Bay Military Club being a splinter group here to undermine the M.V.C.C is pure hear say or insecurity. This club is here to support those who are less informed and spread good information. I don' t see any negatives to our club spreading awarness of Veterans, Military Vehicles, And shows. At every event when a table is set up, flyers are put out showing North Bay club, M.V.C.C. and M.V.P.A.

There should only be one V.P to an area, but am not against growth of the Board as the CLUB should be INFORMED to why, then see what members have to say positive /negative and move forward. I understand the present board is making decisions on behalf of members which question (when and why ) - as a member I have the right to question... Just seems to make the voting more complicated than it should have been. Michael France

[softskin_driver]

Dave since you don't seem to understand what I am talking about, let's go back.
First this thread was started by mfrance on April 28th with the title "North Bay V.P." where he stated:
"Rory Burke is going to run against Sunny Hansen for the North Bay V.P."
Then on May 11th (almost 2 weeks later), mamalesser wrote:
Dave, things are looking up! It looks as if there will be a printed newsletter near the 1st of June...This should(lord willing and the creek don't rise) include the official ballot. The North Bay V.P position will be split between the "West" and East" Sonny Hanson running for the East position and Rory Burke running for the West position."
I guess I could go on but to me it is very clear, contrary to your statement:

I think (my best guess) you are upset because up until John threw his hat in the ring Rory was running unopposed and that the split was fine as long as that was the case.

that Rory was running for North Bay V.P. against Sonny, not for the as yet nonexistent North Bay West or East.
John did not even announce his candidacy until:
"I am Running for MVCC Office
Post by John Neuenburg » Wed Jun 08, 2011 10:21 pm
This is to announce I am running for a Vice President position and I am asking for your vote."
Otherwise it looks like the action taken was to change the dynamics of the election in a certain persons favor.
Does this help you to understand the nature of my concern?
If you would like to see other issues please see the thread I started on the MVCC Elections!

And on June 10 a month after the split was announced, John threw his hat in the ring and the ballots hit the street both you and Mike now question the split.