North Bay V.P.

[softskin_driver]

I have finished the June Newsletter it’s in the can and I have requested postage and printing cost from the treasurer.
The ballots are in the works. I think everyone knows my thoughts on splitting the club apart I am against it. The flip side of the coin is I see no reason to have separate groups with boards and treasuries running under the MVCC umbrella.
I have no problem with MVCC members getting together in there area's and showing their vehicles and doing parades meeting and sharing the hobby.
I do have an issue with groups within the MVCC having locals only events and flying banners or calling themselves anything other than the MVCC. I also have a problem with those same people not being MVCC members and getting the benefits of MVCC membership for instance MVCC members campsite rollovers at Tower Park and discounted camping fees that are negotiated by MVCC members for MVCC members and our bussiness advertisers. Paying your MVCC dues has to have some advatages.
I could go on here but I think you get where I am coming from.
One club, the MVCC, every event open to all members, all getting equal benefits from our association.
If you like the newsletter and my answer vote for me if not I can live with that.
I will not politicize the newsletter with my editorials or turn away submission that fit our charter.

[Kurt Lesser]

As the president of the MVCC for more years than I care to think about right now I can say I have worked for the MVCC AS A WHOLE. My thoughts have always been what works best for the 500+ members we have in the club. The fact that there are subgroups within the MVCC doesn't upset me as long as their allegiance is with the MVCC. When that allegiance is put to the test as it is right now my position will still be to do what's right for the club, not something strictly to appease a small group of unhappy individuals. We need to stand united.

Kurt Lesser

[John Neuenburg]

My 2 cents on this last issue is I agree with Kurt from the standpoint of subgroups within the MVCC existing, organizing event attendance, and having parties. Seems natural especially in certain areas. It could cause hard feelings if a group had an exclusive event where "outside" MVCCers were not invited. I don't remember much of that in the past.

The Northern Recon Group has been organized since the '80s. They are geographically linked and most of them over the years have liked to socialize and go to events together. They happen to be super-organized in that they do some fundraising which pays for annual Christmas party expenses. If I recollect properly this party has always been advertised as being open to all MVCCers. The "Bay Area Group" has not been as organized, and this has really been more of a "South Bay Group." This was most active when Mel Guererra's had his compound in Alviso and hosted events.

The North Bay Military Vehicle Club is not a subgroup of the MVCC to my knowledge. I am only on the fringe of this group and don't get up to their monthly meetings so perhaps Michael France or Rory Burke can confirm what I am saying here. It was started from scratch and was a way to organize a fairly remote group of enthusiasts in Sonoma County, many of whom were not involved in the MVCC or even the MVPA. They used to not have dues or a newsletter - not sure about now - but they meet monthly plus Michael in particular does a good job posting event info and photos on their Gee forum, and Jim Neider is an excellent call-to-action phone guy. So they get by without their own newsletter and the NBMVC is club enough for many of their members. Some don't even make it to the MVCC Spring and Fall meets or even know much about them. On the other hand some are MVCC and/or MVPA members and active ones too. That's all cool. Again if I have misrepresented them or left anything out maybe somebody can chime in.

But the thing about being official with the State I don't know about. Is it a requirement for non-profits and not-for-profits when money is collected?

Although the subgroup thing as it exists is not a big threat to the MVCC there is definately a power-grab going on within the club that should be obvious. Elections do matter and Chuck brings up a good point - we should allow the candidates for office, especially in contested races, some space in the printed newsletter to air their platforms. I heard a rumor this is not planned. Maybe Dave B. can tell us if the June newsletter will carry any of that content? Or maybe a special mailer can go out with candidate statements since that seems to be the most successful method of communicating with all members these days.

[softskin_driver]

First let me say that I know of only two people that have communicated with all members in the last four months by newsletter. I am not sure of the percentage reached by web.
The cut off date to get stuff to me for the June newsletter was May 15th. I have not recieved a candidate statement From any candidate.
John are you saying that you feel groups with organized boards and there own treasuries should be allowed to form under the MVCC umbrella and recriut from within the MVCC ranks and boundaries?
I want to make it clear I have no problem with informal groups in geographical areas getting together as MVCC members. The SBG has never had officers or raised funds and all MVCC members were always welcome because we gathered as MVCC members with the distiction we did it in the South Bay Area. A group of MVCC members gathering in the area we live in.
While I was the MVCC VP for the south bay we met for a BBQ and vehicle show in Campbell at the VFW hall. We also had a Christmas party. We did this as MVCC Members twice a year.
All MVCC members were invited and welcome and many came.
The SBG will always be MVCC members who meet in the local area of our MVCC VP and I am sure any of the others who live in that area will tell you no one organized or spoke out against our club the MVCC. Just so you Know the SBG when I joined the club was started by several later to become NRG members. Some members moved from san Jose to northern California. We were the NMVCC then.
The two Conventions (more to come hopfully), Tower Park spring and Fall swapmeets are all MVCC meets and we are an MVPA chapter one of three in this state. Two in So. Cal. and only one in Northern California.
To me there are two types of groups within the MVCC those organized as MVCC with the area MVCC VP support and those not. I am against the latter.

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[John Neuenburg]

John are you saying that you feel groups with organized boards and there own treasuries should be allowed to form under the MVCC umbrella and recruit from within the MVCC ranks and boundaries?

Absolutely not under the "MVCC umbrella." That would be starting a new club and could be considered competitive to the MVCC. This opinion should be explained: If a group of MVers in MVCC territory have "members" and officers then they are a different club than the MVCC. If they have a treasury, then it's for sure and possibly some combination of these features puts them on the State of CA radar screen and so they need to be "official." That part of it is between the officers and the State and I don't know about that subject.

So in any case let's say a new club exists. People could join one or the other or both. That club would be competitive to the MVCC if people joined it and not the MVCC. It works the other way too. Competition is not foreign to Americans. If they are active at attracting and recruiting members from the MVCC, meaning MVCC loses a member, then they are very competitive. Same if they have events where MVCCers are not welcome. This would be be bad for the MVCC. If a MVCC officer is involved in activities competitive to the MVCC it is a serious ethical problem and should be grounds for removal from at least the Board. But an MVCC member or officer could be a member of another club, such as the Southern Cal or Southern Oregon clubs, or the NBMVC, which like I say is not a sub-group of MVCC in my opinion. Does that make sense?

I want to make it clear I have no problem with informal groups in geographical areas getting together as MVCC members. The SBG has never had officers or raised funds and all MVCC members were always welcome because we gathered as MVCC members with the distiction we did it in the South Bay Area. A group of MVCC members gathering in the area we live in.
While I was the MVCC VP for the south bay we met for a BBQ and vehicle show in Campbell at the VFW hall. We also had a
Christmas party. We did this as MVCC Members twice a year. All MVCC members were invited and welcome and many came. The SBG will always be MVCC members who meet in the local area of our MVCC VP and I am sure any of the others who live in that area will tell you no one organized or spoke out against our club the MVCC. Just so you Know the SBG when I joined the club was started by several later to become NRG members. Some members moved from san Jose to northern California. We were the NMVCC then.

Yes - used to be called the South Bay Bunch, and there was an East Bay Group for a while. Met at the Western Aerospace Museum. There was a group in Georgetown in the '80s, and of course the Northern Recon Group centered in Oroville. Two even had logos. All MVCC regional social groups, with the difference being NRG has a treasury. If it's true that the NRG now has an officer structure then they are starting to look like bona fide club. Maybe someone can tell us here.

NMVCC? From the late '70s to '91we were the California Chapter of the Military Vehicle Collectors Club, which was what the MVPA was called then, then when they got their tax exempt 501c3 association status with the Feds and renamed to MVPA we changed our name to what it is now to keep the acronym and shoulder patch, and we incorporated in the State of CA. The first Bylaws draft was drawn up by the Board at the Woodson Bridge meet October 1990. Jeez - trivia - sorry!

I too am against the MVCC breaking into new clubs and frankly don't understand what the advantage would be if it's even being considered now - don't know - but if people have different interests that are not satisfied by the club then so be it.

The MVCC is the largest and longest-lived MV club in the nation, and largest MVPA affiliate worldwide except for MVCC-Italia. We have hosted two very successful National Conventions and the MVPA has asked us to do another one, so they must like the team under Kurt's leadership that pulled them them off. We've hosted the largest annual MV meet in the West for 30 years straight plus the second largest for almost that long. Folks want to be a part of this legacy. They also join and renew to get the great newsletter. If we create future incentives to be members, like a camping discount at Tower Park, that will be yet another reason to be a MVCCer.

This succesful track record is a result of MVCC officers over the decades doing a good job for the majority of MVers in the North/Central state. We all vote for officers who will represent us. Regional VPs in particular look out for issues related to their areas BUT are elected by ALL members and they must keep in mind the interests of all members. It would be wrong, for example, for three of eight officers to make a decision that works against the majority of members. Do you all realize that this could occur the way our Bylaws are currently written? An officer meeting may be called by any three officers or the president. But our quorum-of-four rule is too small for our size of Board. The quorum number will probably be changed in the next Bylaws however this makes it very important for us to elect officers who are reasonable, open-minded team players and definately not anyone with an agenda that works against the overall membership. This advice should be obvious. Please plan to vote and if if you want to know what someone's platform is first, just ask them.

Hope this helps.

[softskin_driver]

Well said John.
Here is a piece of trivia did you ever notice the Georgetown rats had the MVCC logo in the shoulder patch. They were a local group of MVCC members meeting together in there locale.

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[willy]

Oh but that group from George town did not sell T-Shirt to the MVCC on the MVCC table and pocket the money as NRG has done
And when some off us where invited to a Xmas party in Oroville we had to pay for food and the NRG was paid for or did you already forgot Dave
Willy

[softskin_driver]

Kim Sievert, Mel Guerrera and I went to a Christmas party in Oroville at the steak house at the railroad depot back some years ago.
Although the NRG members were surprised we showed up at first they warmed up and I had fun. Remember we all have friends in the NRG. And they welcomed us.
And yes we had to pay for our own food and drink. We did not know it was NRG only. I at least never really felt like I was crashing anyone’s party but was told later we had.
Nobody asked us to leave.
You need to be careful most NRG members are MVCC members first and foremost.
Another thing Willy is you have to let go of the T-shirt thing it was fixed. NRG members manned the MVCC table most of the time for many years no one else volunteered so who is to say except those volunteers what was put where on the tables. After several MVCC members, myself included complained about the mixing of the non MVCC items with MVCC items Kurt asked that items for the NRG fund raising be moved away from the MVCC items and they were. I bought three shirts every year as did many MVCC members who thought that the profits were going to the MVCC treasury and they were not. My opinion is the NRG shirts were the best item on the table.
Some are still very upset about that confusion. But it is done. Move on. I think the bigger person would just let bygones be bygones. Personally I worked the sales table twice in all the years I have been in the club and got one free lunch at big Bear. It was a lot of work for very little reward. I think if you moved to Oroville and had worked the table as much as some of the NRG members you would be wondering what the complaining is all about.
For me that stuff is water under the bridge the MVCC board has added the quarter masters positions as a standing committee and that will solve the problem for now.
In a club like ours it should not be about what free stuff you didn't get it should about one club with all members getting equal benefits from their membership.
Those the choose not to participate should have the chance to and then if they do not and later they ask why they missed out on something included as part of that participation there should be no hard feeling for that lose. If you go to the dance and don’t ask anyone to dance you can’t complain later that the dance organizers should be held responsible because you had a bad time and didn’t ever get to dance. That’s your own fault.
The issue I have is those T-shirts were not produced for the MVCC and we did not have anything like it on our table raising money for the MVCC. The fact is there was marketing energy being exerted that was not for the benefit of all the MVCC members. And some producing these products and selling them were MVCC board members.
That is very troubling to me.

[Kim Sievert]

Simple Fact: This years elections, can change the way things are handled in the future.

Kim

[Chuck Lutz]

Kim...you have summed up what I think will possibly be another defining moment in the club. Because of that, I really was hoping that the membership in general would be able to hear out the opinions of anyone running for office on several issues...and to me, first and foremost is the issue of any future effort to split our club.

Flat out, to any prospective candidate...."if a split in the membership occurs while you are in office will you stay with the MVCC or go with a new chapter?" To me, anyone who does not freely admit their opinion or who gets into a 'well, that depends' discussion has as much as admitted they would CONSIDER it and therefore will not get my vote!

I feel that the club has done some really good things for it's members and when we go to an e-mag we will have additional funds to do even more without raising dues anytime in the near future. I want to KNOW what the position of EVERY officer on the Board is as it only takes a couple votes to swing a ruling on something (as has been pointed out above, thanks!) so it is important to KNOW exactly how each Board member feels about the future of this club BEFORE the election.

I have no problem whatsoever with anyone who wants to quit the MVCC and start their own nationally recognized and chartered chapter. I just don't want to elect a Board who has control of the MVCC that intends on splitting the club anyway having the right to make decisions for the MVCC.

Likewise I have no problem with regional groups within the MVCC organizing events, or M151 guys or Dodge guys or Ford or Willys guys...that is fine with me as long as we all fly the same MVCC flag...

[Bill C.]

Kim Sievert, Mel Guerrera and I went to a Christmas party in Oroville at the steak house at the railroad depot back some years ago.
Although the NRG members were surprised we showed up at first they warmed up and I had fun.

The NRG Christmas Partys have always been RSVP. If you did not RSVP I can understand their surprise when you showed up.

And yes we had to pay for our own food and drink. We did not know it was NRG only. I at least never really felt like I was crashing anyone’s party but was told later we had.
Nobody asked us to leave.

The rule was if you worked the table signing up new members, selling patches and T-shirts, your meal was paid for by NRG. If you didn't, you paid for your own meal.
I have paid for all but two meals at the NRG Christmas party.

[John Neuenburg]

I have purchased many of the NRG T-shirts over the years, even after I found out they were not a MVCC fundraiser. Most members thought they were MVCC items OR didn't care they just liked the shirts, probably both. It probably should have been advertised as what it was. But most should agree that the trade the club did over the years with those folks was a good one because they pulled shifts manning the MVCC table for three days at each major event and the Board didn't have to worry about that important thing. MVCC memberships were sold and renewed plus the year-stripe patches and a few other things were/are MVCC fundraisers. Recently the MVCC decided to create it's own T-shirt and some new sale items and has formalized those fundraising activities under the new MVCC Quartermaster committee/position (the Jorgensen duo). This move coincided with the NRG switching to a different method of fundraising for their party last year so it seemed like a pretty seamless transition. With a new Secretary coming aboard the Board will just have to decide where the membership business will occur at the events - Quartermaster table or a separate MVCC business table. It will work out.

[Kurt Lesser]

Bill,

After I became the MVCC president JoAnn and I were invited to one of the NRG Christmas parties and after arriving in Oroville we were told we were expected to pay for our dinners! There seems to have always been some kind of double standard there. It isn't anything new. I agree that showing up without an RSVP strains the resources a bit and could have serious problems if too many people showed up but being invited guests and then having to pay? That's another story altogether.

[Kim Sievert]

Sorry to say Bill,

It is hard to believe, that all of the NRG Christmas partiers and their associated family members, (all whom got free meals) all worked the booth.

The NRG Christmas Partys have always been RSVP. If you did not RSVP I can understand their surprise when you showed up.

An RSVP should not entitle you, to a free meal.

After I became the MVCC president JoAnn and I were invited to one of the NRG Christmas parties and after arriving in Oroville we were told we were expected to pay for our dinners!

By-law
Article 3 Section 3.15 Payments to members;
Members shall not receive any salary for their services as such, but the officers shall have the power by resolution to contract in writing for and to pay to members rendering unusual or special services to the mvcc, compensation appropriate to the value of such services.

Kim

[Kurt Lesser]

And if they had been working openly as supporters of the MVCC we could have done that very thing.