MB379881 story
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MB379881 story
Hello,
Last year I did buy an unrestored jeep. I did not do anything with it until early this year, but was somewhat active on this forum in order to prepare for a restoration. A couple of months ago I did bring the beast home and did start to take it apart.
I did learn a lot from the G and all of you have been a great help but I am still nowhere.
This is the story:
I did buy the jeep in Belgium but it came from the UK. It has been refurbished in La Maltournée in 1955 (MALT Plate 8878 dd 24 SEP 1955) so it has been used by the French army. It kept his MB 379881 id however meaning that not many modifications were done in 1955. It is not a matching MB however. The chassis is OCT 1944 and the tub (ACM II 198512) and powertrain are MAR 1945.
These are some pictures I made before buying:
Did I tell you this would be picture heavy?
In the next I will keep you informed about my progress.
I am looking forward to you comments and advice.
Greetings
Hans
Last year I did buy an unrestored jeep. I did not do anything with it until early this year, but was somewhat active on this forum in order to prepare for a restoration. A couple of months ago I did bring the beast home and did start to take it apart.
I did learn a lot from the G and all of you have been a great help but I am still nowhere.
This is the story:
I did buy the jeep in Belgium but it came from the UK. It has been refurbished in La Maltournée in 1955 (MALT Plate 8878 dd 24 SEP 1955) so it has been used by the French army. It kept his MB 379881 id however meaning that not many modifications were done in 1955. It is not a matching MB however. The chassis is OCT 1944 and the tub (ACM II 198512) and powertrain are MAR 1945.
These are some pictures I made before buying:
Did I tell you this would be picture heavy?
In the next I will keep you informed about my progress.
I am looking forward to you comments and advice.
Greetings
Hans
Last edited by htc on Mon Feb 06, 2017 10:50 am, edited 4 times in total.
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827
MB 379881
GPW 253827
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Re: MB379881 story
Hi Hans,
An especially nice MB you have there,quite complete,not rusted out,and used by two armies...the pictures you've posted are just right-hope you post more as you spend time with your Willys.
An especially nice MB you have there,quite complete,not rusted out,and used by two armies...the pictures you've posted are just right-hope you post more as you spend time with your Willys.
Ralph
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Re: MB379881 story
Hello,
Because Ralph asked for it some more pictures of taking the fenders, grille and windshield off:
The right fender is a Ford and the left one MB. Both have holes that will need welding. The Ford fender has a buba reinforcement.
The grille with headlights. MB. (but the small blackout lights are Ford).
The windshield (quite some rust )
What is left for later:
Next will be steering wheel and tub removal.
Looking for comments and advice.
Greetings
Hans
Because Ralph asked for it some more pictures of taking the fenders, grille and windshield off:
The right fender is a Ford and the left one MB. Both have holes that will need welding. The Ford fender has a buba reinforcement.
The grille with headlights. MB. (but the small blackout lights are Ford).
The windshield (quite some rust )
What is left for later:
Next will be steering wheel and tub removal.
Looking for comments and advice.
Greetings
Hans
Last edited by htc on Wed May 31, 2017 10:59 am, edited 2 times in total.
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827
MB 379881
GPW 253827
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- G-Major
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- Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:15 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: MB379881 story
Next is the steering wheel.
I did read that it would be difficult to remove but I did not know that it would be THAT difficult.
First step was easy
Next step was quite a challenge
better
After that I removed the back. I will need to take out the welded reinforcements. I will also have to recover the jerry can carrier.
After that I did remove the bolts that connect the body to the chassis. This also is easier said than done. WD40 can only do that much. Many bolts needed to be broken. Quite a lot of work. But in the end I was able to lift the body:
I was on my own and could not lift it completely. It got stuck somewhere. After inspection I realized that the machine gun mount kept me from removing the tub completely:
Once the tub was removed I could inspect the bottom
And I was also able to better inspect the chassis. Luckily the chassis was OK.
I was able to recover the Malt plate (same number as the one on the glovebox):
and also in two different locations the MB 379881 chassis number:
These numbers were put on the chassis by the French after the war and after the 'refurbishing' in 1955. I did read somewhere that the fact that the French did re-use the MB chassis number means that they did not have to do much on the jeep in La Maltournée.
The jeep was not turned into an ITM of VLTT at what time it would also have lost its chassis MB tag.
This is a closer look at the steering gear box.
It has a Ford cover.
But at the other side it looks like this:
Somebody told me the is early MB. Can this be confirmed?
Next will be the removal of the steering, bell cranks, tie rods, knuckles and whatever.
Comments are welcome.
Greetings
Hans
I did read that it would be difficult to remove but I did not know that it would be THAT difficult.
First step was easy
Next step was quite a challenge
better
After that I removed the back. I will need to take out the welded reinforcements. I will also have to recover the jerry can carrier.
After that I did remove the bolts that connect the body to the chassis. This also is easier said than done. WD40 can only do that much. Many bolts needed to be broken. Quite a lot of work. But in the end I was able to lift the body:
I was on my own and could not lift it completely. It got stuck somewhere. After inspection I realized that the machine gun mount kept me from removing the tub completely:
Once the tub was removed I could inspect the bottom
And I was also able to better inspect the chassis. Luckily the chassis was OK.
I was able to recover the Malt plate (same number as the one on the glovebox):
and also in two different locations the MB 379881 chassis number:
These numbers were put on the chassis by the French after the war and after the 'refurbishing' in 1955. I did read somewhere that the fact that the French did re-use the MB chassis number means that they did not have to do much on the jeep in La Maltournée.
The jeep was not turned into an ITM of VLTT at what time it would also have lost its chassis MB tag.
This is a closer look at the steering gear box.
It has a Ford cover.
But at the other side it looks like this:
Somebody told me the is early MB. Can this be confirmed?
Next will be the removal of the steering, bell cranks, tie rods, knuckles and whatever.
Comments are welcome.
Greetings
Hans
Last edited by htc on Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:01 am, edited 1 time in total.
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827
MB 379881
GPW 253827
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Re: MB379881 story
Ford steering box, ford style right fender. (typical on rebuilt jeeps, "jeep salad")
Nice jeep!
Ed s
Nice jeep!
Ed s
54 CJ-3A/B
56 DJ-3A for sale
45 GPW 271022, USMC 46 CJ-2A 2WD"gasser"
50 CJ-V35
58 CJ-3B
57 DJ-3A chassis for sale
56 DJ-3A for sale
45 GPW 271022, USMC 46 CJ-2A 2WD"gasser"
50 CJ-V35
58 CJ-3B
57 DJ-3A chassis for sale
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Re: MB379881 story
Thank you for the reaction and info.
Next thing I did was remove pedals, the pedal arms, the brake cylinder and the steering box:
The clutch pedal arm is Ford (I will show a picture when it is cleaned later)
The brake pedal arm is MB
This is what some parts look like after cleaning. I did use electrolysis for removing rust and paint after having manually removed oil and dirt.
(For those interested in the electrolysis process I refer to a threat I did start on the G some months ago: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=242865)
The master brake cylinder is WOF (up to now the only WOF part I did find on this Jeep):
After that removal of the steering box but first removal of the steering drag link:
After that removal of the bell crank and the tie rods. Everything is really dirty and needs a thorough cleaning.
Most of the parts do have a Ford logo on them:
After electrolysis cleaning:
Next I will report on the removal of spring assemblies, wheel drums and axes.
Comments are welcome as usual
Greetings
Hans
Next thing I did was remove pedals, the pedal arms, the brake cylinder and the steering box:
The clutch pedal arm is Ford (I will show a picture when it is cleaned later)
The brake pedal arm is MB
This is what some parts look like after cleaning. I did use electrolysis for removing rust and paint after having manually removed oil and dirt.
(For those interested in the electrolysis process I refer to a threat I did start on the G some months ago: viewtopic.php?f=4&t=242865)
The master brake cylinder is WOF (up to now the only WOF part I did find on this Jeep):
After that removal of the steering box but first removal of the steering drag link:
After that removal of the bell crank and the tie rods. Everything is really dirty and needs a thorough cleaning.
Most of the parts do have a Ford logo on them:
After electrolysis cleaning:
Next I will report on the removal of spring assemblies, wheel drums and axes.
Comments are welcome as usual
Greetings
Hans
Last edited by htc on Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:09 am, edited 1 time in total.
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827
MB 379881
GPW 253827
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: MB379881 story
The MB number on the left frame rail looks like "MB 379884" instead of MB 379881?
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: MB379881 story
Hans,
you may very well have a complete GPW axle, it will have a "GP" cast in the center section.
Ed S
you may very well have a complete GPW axle, it will have a "GP" cast in the center section.
Ed S
54 CJ-3A/B
56 DJ-3A for sale
45 GPW 271022, USMC 46 CJ-2A 2WD"gasser"
50 CJ-V35
58 CJ-3B
57 DJ-3A chassis for sale
56 DJ-3A for sale
45 GPW 271022, USMC 46 CJ-2A 2WD"gasser"
50 CJ-V35
58 CJ-3B
57 DJ-3A chassis for sale
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Re: MB379881 story
Hello Chuck,
Sorry for the confusion. It is due to the bad quality of the JPG that it looks like a 4.
These are the details:
It is a 1 like on the chassis plate
But there it is less visible
Thank you for looking at this so attentively.
Greetings
Hans
Sorry for the confusion. It is due to the bad quality of the JPG that it looks like a 4.
These are the details:
It is a 1 like on the chassis plate
But there it is less visible
Thank you for looking at this so attentively.
Greetings
Hans
Last edited by htc on Mon Feb 06, 2017 11:14 am, edited 1 time in total.
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827
MB 379881
GPW 253827
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- Location: Belgium
Re: MB379881 story
Hello Ed,
Yes, you are right.
The front axle is GPW. It has several 'GP' and 'F' marks.
I will show you pictures tomorrow. It is rebuild by the French however in 1955. It has a rebuild plate. So some of the bolts are not 'F' anymore.
Thank you for your reaction and help with the identification of the salad jeep ingredients. It is fun.
Greetings
Hans
Yes, you are right.
The front axle is GPW. It has several 'GP' and 'F' marks.
I will show you pictures tomorrow. It is rebuild by the French however in 1955. It has a rebuild plate. So some of the bolts are not 'F' anymore.
Thank you for your reaction and help with the identification of the salad jeep ingredients. It is fun.
Greetings
Hans
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827
MB 379881
GPW 253827
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- Location: Belgium
Re: MB379881 story
Next thing I did was remove the front spring assemblies and the shocks.
Not so difficult. Only I did have to break some U-bolt clip nuts.
For the removal of the shackles you have to take into account on which side you are working.
There are ten leafs in the front. There are eleven leafs in the back. This is normal for an OCT 1944 MB (change from 8/9 to 10/11 on OCT 2nd production). The clips on the spring assemblies are MB. The leafs are not chamfered. I was told that this would indicate that they are replaced by post-war spring assemblies.
I am not convinced about that. I have seen another example of an MB jeep with non chamfered leafs. Only one though. All others are chamfered. I would like to find out more about this.
I did start two threats on the G with this subject:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=254581
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=254614
After removing the spring assemblies I was able to remove he front axel. It allowed me to better inspect it. I did also remove the wheels and wheel drums. These are some pictures:
As Ed already suspected the front axle is GPW:
It does have Rzeppa joints:
and there are two different ones. I suspect one to be original:
and the other one a replacement (maybe WOF?)
The axle has been rebuild in 1955 by the French army. Not all the bolts are 'F' marked because of this.
This is the interior of the differential. I do not find any problems:
Next I will tackle the rear spring assemblies and axle.
After that cleaning, cleaning and more cleaning.
Any comments?
Greetings
Hans
Not so difficult. Only I did have to break some U-bolt clip nuts.
For the removal of the shackles you have to take into account on which side you are working.
There are ten leafs in the front. There are eleven leafs in the back. This is normal for an OCT 1944 MB (change from 8/9 to 10/11 on OCT 2nd production). The clips on the spring assemblies are MB. The leafs are not chamfered. I was told that this would indicate that they are replaced by post-war spring assemblies.
I am not convinced about that. I have seen another example of an MB jeep with non chamfered leafs. Only one though. All others are chamfered. I would like to find out more about this.
I did start two threats on the G with this subject:
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=254581
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=254614
After removing the spring assemblies I was able to remove he front axel. It allowed me to better inspect it. I did also remove the wheels and wheel drums. These are some pictures:
As Ed already suspected the front axle is GPW:
It does have Rzeppa joints:
and there are two different ones. I suspect one to be original:
and the other one a replacement (maybe WOF?)
The axle has been rebuild in 1955 by the French army. Not all the bolts are 'F' marked because of this.
This is the interior of the differential. I do not find any problems:
Next I will tackle the rear spring assemblies and axle.
After that cleaning, cleaning and more cleaning.
Any comments?
Greetings
Hans
Last edited by htc on Wed May 31, 2017 11:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827
MB 379881
GPW 253827
-
- G-Major
- Posts: 888
- Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:15 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: MB379881 story
Next is the rear axle.
Nothing special.
These are the wheel drums:
Somebody told me that I had a mix of wheel drums of MB and a trailer. Can this be confirmed? I will show pictures of the drums later when they are cleaned for better identification but maybe it is already visible here?
I removed the U bolts. Right side was easy:
But on left side I had to cut the bolts with a dremel:
In the end everything went off:
Everything was really dirty as you can see form this picture:
This is the axle differential:
I guess it is Mb as I did not find any GPW or 'F' marks. But is it WWII? Is there any way this can be dated?
Some pictures of the chassis (which do not show any rust at all ):
This is what it looks like when the drum is removed
Here I am removing the axle shaft:
The differential with cover removed
some details:
and a bad surprise. Some of the theet are gone. Not much but probably enough for a replacement?
Now that almost everything is taken apart it is time to clean, clean and clean. That is next.
Comments?
Greetings
Hans
Nothing special.
These are the wheel drums:
Somebody told me that I had a mix of wheel drums of MB and a trailer. Can this be confirmed? I will show pictures of the drums later when they are cleaned for better identification but maybe it is already visible here?
I removed the U bolts. Right side was easy:
But on left side I had to cut the bolts with a dremel:
In the end everything went off:
Everything was really dirty as you can see form this picture:
This is the axle differential:
I guess it is Mb as I did not find any GPW or 'F' marks. But is it WWII? Is there any way this can be dated?
Some pictures of the chassis (which do not show any rust at all ):
This is what it looks like when the drum is removed
Here I am removing the axle shaft:
The differential with cover removed
some details:
and a bad surprise. Some of the theet are gone. Not much but probably enough for a replacement?
Now that almost everything is taken apart it is time to clean, clean and clean. That is next.
Comments?
Greetings
Hans
Last edited by htc on Wed May 31, 2017 11:27 am, edited 3 times in total.
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827
MB 379881
GPW 253827
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- G-Major
- Posts: 888
- Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:15 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: MB379881 story
Hello,
After having taken appart the whole jeep, one of the things to do is clean all the parts.
For the smaller parts I mainly use electrolysis (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=242865). The size of the parts that can be cleaned of course depends on the size of the container with the sodium bicarbonate solution.
For bigger parts I used a rotating steel brush.
For the big body parts I will use sand blasting. The hood I am cleaning with a cleaning wheel (Klingspor NCD 200) because the sand blaster is afraid he will warp the metal of the hood so he does not wat to touch it.
First I will show you what I did with the spring assemblies. I give quite some details on this because I want to find out if these spring assemblies are original or not.
If you know something about this or if you have similar spring assemblies as mine, please let me know.
I did start 2 threats about them some time ago (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=254614 and viewtopic.php?f=4&t=254581) but it did not fully solve the issue.
Here we go:
Rear spring assembly with 11 leafs. Number is correct for OCT 1944 MB.
This is one of the clips. There is a hole in the leaf and a the clip has a small bump that fits into the hole.
After removing (read breaking) the bolt:
and the whole set:
Note that the leafs are not chamfered which would indicate that they are not original. However, I did find one picture of a G503 member Mark Tombleson that did show leafs like mine but belonging to an MZ-1 MB. (????)
Front spring assembly with 10 leafs (ok for OCT 1944 MB) but with different clips. This time they are connected to the leafs with a (I do not know the English word) rivet? Clich Bolt?.
I did brake the first one but the others stayed on the leafs:
The long leafs I cleaned with a brush:
The smaler ones I did electrolyze. This is what I put in the electrolysis solution:
and this is what came out (after removing the black rust residu). (because there was some room left in the electrolysis container, I did include some other parts):
By the way, after cleaning I always put some 'phosphating primer' on the bare metal to protect agains corrosion before painting.
This is the result of cleaning one set (In the back one can see the other rear spring assembly before cleaning and with the above mentioned marks):
This is a detail picture of the marks (on the left and right rear spring assemblies):
I would be very ( emphasis:very) interested in knowing what these marks mean. Anybody?
Anybody knows whether these spring assemblies could be original (remember that it is a MALT jeep, refurbished in 1955 before the Hotchkiss M201)?
Oh yes, another question: Do you think I can reuse the clips?
Greetings
Hans
After having taken appart the whole jeep, one of the things to do is clean all the parts.
For the smaller parts I mainly use electrolysis (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=242865). The size of the parts that can be cleaned of course depends on the size of the container with the sodium bicarbonate solution.
For bigger parts I used a rotating steel brush.
For the big body parts I will use sand blasting. The hood I am cleaning with a cleaning wheel (Klingspor NCD 200) because the sand blaster is afraid he will warp the metal of the hood so he does not wat to touch it.
First I will show you what I did with the spring assemblies. I give quite some details on this because I want to find out if these spring assemblies are original or not.
If you know something about this or if you have similar spring assemblies as mine, please let me know.
I did start 2 threats about them some time ago (viewtopic.php?f=4&t=254614 and viewtopic.php?f=4&t=254581) but it did not fully solve the issue.
Here we go:
Rear spring assembly with 11 leafs. Number is correct for OCT 1944 MB.
This is one of the clips. There is a hole in the leaf and a the clip has a small bump that fits into the hole.
After removing (read breaking) the bolt:
and the whole set:
Note that the leafs are not chamfered which would indicate that they are not original. However, I did find one picture of a G503 member Mark Tombleson that did show leafs like mine but belonging to an MZ-1 MB. (????)
Front spring assembly with 10 leafs (ok for OCT 1944 MB) but with different clips. This time they are connected to the leafs with a (I do not know the English word) rivet? Clich Bolt?.
I did brake the first one but the others stayed on the leafs:
The long leafs I cleaned with a brush:
The smaler ones I did electrolyze. This is what I put in the electrolysis solution:
and this is what came out (after removing the black rust residu). (because there was some room left in the electrolysis container, I did include some other parts):
By the way, after cleaning I always put some 'phosphating primer' on the bare metal to protect agains corrosion before painting.
This is the result of cleaning one set (In the back one can see the other rear spring assembly before cleaning and with the above mentioned marks):
This is a detail picture of the marks (on the left and right rear spring assemblies):
I would be very ( emphasis:very) interested in knowing what these marks mean. Anybody?
Anybody knows whether these spring assemblies could be original (remember that it is a MALT jeep, refurbished in 1955 before the Hotchkiss M201)?
Oh yes, another question: Do you think I can reuse the clips?
Greetings
Hans
Last edited by htc on Wed May 31, 2017 11:40 am, edited 2 times in total.
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827
MB 379881
GPW 253827
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- Joined: Sun Sep 07, 2014 11:15 am
- Location: Belgium
Re: MB379881 story
In between the cleaning of parts I decided to start working on the tub.
First I would do the rear where Bubba installed a tailgate:
First I removed the tailgate
I did cut out the jerry can carrier and the hold down strap bracket which I hope to reuse:
I did also cut/remove all the other sheet metal that does not belong to the original rear. This is quite some work and you need to have the right tools.
I needed to keep as much of the original as possible to be able to install a replacement rear.
These are pictures of the end result:
and detail:
And next to that there is the cleaning, cleaning and cleaning. Using steel brushes and electrolysis one can get very clean parts.
I hope the pictures can illustrate this.
The fun part about it is finding back all the f-signs of the GPW components.
I am just enclosing a selection of pictures of the process without any comments.
Somebody told me that only one of the brake drums that I have is original to an MB and that the three others are drums used on a trailer.
Can somebody confirm this?
This one would be original (sorry, not cleaned):
And this one is one of the three that would not be original:
Is anybody able to comment on the different drums?
Thanks
Greetings
Hans
First I would do the rear where Bubba installed a tailgate:
First I removed the tailgate
I did cut out the jerry can carrier and the hold down strap bracket which I hope to reuse:
I did also cut/remove all the other sheet metal that does not belong to the original rear. This is quite some work and you need to have the right tools.
I needed to keep as much of the original as possible to be able to install a replacement rear.
These are pictures of the end result:
and detail:
And next to that there is the cleaning, cleaning and cleaning. Using steel brushes and electrolysis one can get very clean parts.
I hope the pictures can illustrate this.
The fun part about it is finding back all the f-signs of the GPW components.
I am just enclosing a selection of pictures of the process without any comments.
Somebody told me that only one of the brake drums that I have is original to an MB and that the three others are drums used on a trailer.
Can somebody confirm this?
This one would be original (sorry, not cleaned):
And this one is one of the three that would not be original:
Is anybody able to comment on the different drums?
Thanks
Greetings
Hans
Last edited by htc on Sat Jul 01, 2017 12:35 am, edited 3 times in total.
Living in Belgium
MB 379881
GPW 253827
MB 379881
GPW 253827
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Re: MB379881 story
Hi Hans,
I don't have any suggestions at this point but want to encourage you that you are doing very good work. I worked on mine for over 2 years and took plenty of photos so please feel free to look at my thread and perhaps I might be able to help that way.
I don't have any suggestions at this point but want to encourage you that you are doing very good work. I worked on mine for over 2 years and took plenty of photos so please feel free to look at my thread and perhaps I might be able to help that way.
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