1943 MB 213301
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Re: 1943 MB 213301
You've got me there Paul. The red and black look to be identical otherwise. I've never seen any trace of color on any of the originals I've seen so can't really help I'm afraid.
Robert of Dataplates 4 U might know.
Cheers,
Dave
Robert of Dataplates 4 U might know.
Cheers,
Dave
GPW 68744 29-Sep-42
GPW 123050 01-Jun-43
MB 210793 11-Feb-43
GPW 123050 01-Jun-43
MB 210793 11-Feb-43
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Re: 1943 MB 213301
Looks like that hideous blue must have been popular at one time to paint those engines. Mine was the same color.
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Re: 1943 MB 213301
Dave,sutts wrote:You've got me there Paul. The red and black look to be identical otherwise. I've never seen any trace of color on any of the originals I've seen so can't really help I'm afraid.
Robert of Dataplates 4 U might know.
Cheers,
Dave
Like you said, by the format of the stamping these didn't come with that 2nd style of data plate when the MB was built by Willys, but this older thread has a photo posted by Bill M. of an NOS T-18 in a crate that has the 2nd style of plate, but in red... (Picture is a couple of posts down the 1st page)
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=171920&p=990407&hil ... te#p990407
We've all seen how NOS in a crate isn't necessarily the same as factory installed, but that is a different style of plate completely (post war NOS? Or depot rebuild?)
So were the original plates red or black? A couple of the samples I've seen might have a tinge of red but it's hard to tell since it seems that most are now plain metal.
Paul
1943 MB 213301 DOD 2-22-43
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Re: 1943 MB 213301
Dave, I also added a few more bolt markings to your research thread...
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=225719&p=1394752#p1394752
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=225719&p=1394752#p1394752
1943 MB 213301 DOD 2-22-43
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Re: 1943 MB 213301
Couldn't one buy rebuilt L-134 engines from Sears or somewhere that were painted blue?thidisbogus wrote:Looks like that hideous blue must have been popular at one time to paint those engines. Mine was the same color.
1943 MB 213301 DOD 2-22-43
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Re: 1943 MB 213301
As I'm taking it apart, found a couple things that raise a painting/production question for me.
On the inside of all four spring perches, I found red oxide primer, not OD - indicating that the axles were not fully painted OD until mounted to the springs... I would think these were totally separate assemblies and painted that way. Were the axles and springs painted OD only once bolted together? I've seen photos with the Willys springs appearing to be a darker color than the rest of the chassis, but I still would have thought the axles were fully painted OD prior to assembly.
The inside of this MB Bellhousing is OD, and it looks original. Doesn't look like there's any primer underneath, certainly not any red oxide. Is this the way they were typically done? I would have expected to see primer, maybe with no OD topcoat. Maybe this has a thin coat of black primer? This is a January 19th bellhousing by the casting stamp, should be 1943 or later (as it has the parking cable bracket hole).
On the inside of all four spring perches, I found red oxide primer, not OD - indicating that the axles were not fully painted OD until mounted to the springs... I would think these were totally separate assemblies and painted that way. Were the axles and springs painted OD only once bolted together? I've seen photos with the Willys springs appearing to be a darker color than the rest of the chassis, but I still would have thought the axles were fully painted OD prior to assembly.
The inside of this MB Bellhousing is OD, and it looks original. Doesn't look like there's any primer underneath, certainly not any red oxide. Is this the way they were typically done? I would have expected to see primer, maybe with no OD topcoat. Maybe this has a thin coat of black primer? This is a January 19th bellhousing by the casting stamp, should be 1943 or later (as it has the parking cable bracket hole).
1943 MB 213301 DOD 2-22-43
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Re: 1943 MB 213301
Finally, on to the frame.
I'd like to save as much of the original metal as possible, but the rear crossmember was a bit past my skills to redo. It was twisted up pretty badly, with several extra holes and welds from what must have been an added trailer hitch in the past.
A bit of cutoff wheel and grinder and new rear crossmember ready to go -
A trip to the sandblaster to clean things up
Then on with the new rear crossmember. I originally planned to replace the pintle brace, but it was in good shape and the original welds looked too good (and too hard to recreate well with a Mig) to remove.
I drilled out the back of the "E" rivet, and put it back in place. Not sure if all Willys came with this type of rivet on the pintle brace. For the rivets from the crossmember to the frame, I used the imitation style from BMJP.
I'd like to save as much of the original metal as possible, but the rear crossmember was a bit past my skills to redo. It was twisted up pretty badly, with several extra holes and welds from what must have been an added trailer hitch in the past.
A bit of cutoff wheel and grinder and new rear crossmember ready to go -
A trip to the sandblaster to clean things up
Then on with the new rear crossmember. I originally planned to replace the pintle brace, but it was in good shape and the original welds looked too good (and too hard to recreate well with a Mig) to remove.
I drilled out the back of the "E" rivet, and put it back in place. Not sure if all Willys came with this type of rivet on the pintle brace. For the rivets from the crossmember to the frame, I used the imitation style from BMJP.
1943 MB 213301 DOD 2-22-43
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Re: 1943 MB 213301
Nice work Paul, watching you keeps me motivated.
Cheers,
Dave
Cheers,
Dave
GPW 68744 29-Sep-42
GPW 123050 01-Jun-43
MB 210793 11-Feb-43
GPW 123050 01-Jun-43
MB 210793 11-Feb-43
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Re: 1943 MB 213301
Thanks Dave, I just finished up tinning and painting the frame - I'll have to post some more photos in the next day or so.
Paul
Paul
1943 MB 213301 DOD 2-22-43
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Re: 1943 MB 213301
Now on to the front of the frame. The upper bumper gussets were twisted beyond repair, so I removed them, but the bottom ones were in fairly good shape. Just needed a little hammer and dolly, and weld up of a very small crack and they're fine (photo before repairs) -
After some straightening of the bottom gussets and adding the tops. I used four of the imitation rivets by Brent Mullins. I bolted the gussets on first with regular bolts and did the welds, then kept them clamped tight between the rivet holes and added the imitation rivets. Tightened them up with loctite, they look very close to the original.
I tried to simulate the two welds on the uppers based on photos I took before I removed them. They mirror the lowers.
After some straightening of the bottom gussets and adding the tops. I used four of the imitation rivets by Brent Mullins. I bolted the gussets on first with regular bolts and did the welds, then kept them clamped tight between the rivet holes and added the imitation rivets. Tightened them up with loctite, they look very close to the original.
I tried to simulate the two welds on the uppers based on photos I took before I removed them. They mirror the lowers.
Last edited by Beers on Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:17 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1943 MB 213301 DOD 2-22-43
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Re: 1943 MB 213301
I had to do some miscellaneous frame repairs, like removing a couple of broken bolts. I drilled a hole in the center of the broken bolt, filled it with some weld, and then welded a nut to the top adding to the weld already in the bolt. Right after I welded it, I put a crayon next to the frame and the heat pulls the wax down into the hole. This technique seems to work really well, occasionally the nut will break off and you'll have to do it over again. Between the wax and the heat from the MIG, most will come right out.
Also, one of the studs on the crossmember for the radiator bond strap was broken off at the lower nut, so it had to be replaced. I just picked a bolt with the same threads, 5/16" NF, and wire wheeled it off to clean metal.
The other stud extended 1" from the cross member so I did the same for this one.
Also, one of the studs on the crossmember for the radiator bond strap was broken off at the lower nut, so it had to be replaced. I just picked a bolt with the same threads, 5/16" NF, and wire wheeled it off to clean metal.
The other stud extended 1" from the cross member so I did the same for this one.
Last edited by Beers on Sat Aug 02, 2014 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1943 MB 213301 DOD 2-22-43
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Re: 1943 MB 213301
Also did some tinning, on the motor mount pads, for the mount and exhaust pipe bond straps, and on the front of the battery tray for the battery cable. Instead of the traditional method of using solder, I used tinning butter and a torch (the pictures are a bit out of order, you can see some broken studs for the axle bumpers and the old bond strap stud that I hadn't removed/repaired yet).
1943 MB 213301 DOD 2-22-43
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Re: 1943 MB 213301
And finally, some paint!
For red primer, I sprayed on Rustoleum's rusty metal primer. There's certainly more expensive options, and some say that it doesn't adhere well to clean metal, but I haven't found that to be true and have had a lot of luck with it. Sprayed on with an HVLP gun and 2.0 mm tip. Really durable, and makes a great base for the enamel OD. I taped off the frame tag and the tinning.
And then the good stuff. 33070 from Ron, with the same gun.
I don't want to turn this into a paint color thread, but three reasons I'm using this color: it matches the tone (greenish vs. bluish vs. brownish) of the original paint I found under several items such as brackets attached to the firewall, info for Lloyd White's book really points towards this as being correct for an MB, and most importantly I like the way it looks!).
For red primer, I sprayed on Rustoleum's rusty metal primer. There's certainly more expensive options, and some say that it doesn't adhere well to clean metal, but I haven't found that to be true and have had a lot of luck with it. Sprayed on with an HVLP gun and 2.0 mm tip. Really durable, and makes a great base for the enamel OD. I taped off the frame tag and the tinning.
And then the good stuff. 33070 from Ron, with the same gun.
I don't want to turn this into a paint color thread, but three reasons I'm using this color: it matches the tone (greenish vs. bluish vs. brownish) of the original paint I found under several items such as brackets attached to the firewall, info for Lloyd White's book really points towards this as being correct for an MB, and most importantly I like the way it looks!).
1943 MB 213301 DOD 2-22-43
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Re: 1943 MB 213301
A few more photos of the frame. The wood bumper filler was really useful to help true up the gussets.
1943 MB 213301 DOD 2-22-43
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Re: 1943 MB 213301
Very nice work with the frame! Any sanding work with the primer or just paint directly after dry?
Keep good job!
Keep good job!
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