MA 450S Carter Carb

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damar2yxr
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MA 450S Carter Carb

Post by damar2yxr » Mon Jun 19, 2017 3:34 pm

I have a freshly rebuilt Carter 450S for the MA for sale. This is a quality ScoutPilot rebuild. I've had this carb sitting around for years not knowing what it was until my level of education allowed me to realize what I had........Hopefully there is an MA out there that needs a carb. This carb can be yours for only $550

This post has now become the definitive discussion on the evolution of the 450S carb and its use in the MA. Please take the time to read carefully the research that has gone into this topic.

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Last edited by damar2yxr on Mon Jul 10, 2017 4:51 am, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: MA 450S Carter Carb

Post by chasendeer » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:05 pm

Nice looking carb!!
Jay

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MA 450S Carter Carb

Post by wo2jeeper » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:12 pm

The top is not MA. Also doubt the needle used is MA. Both differ from this one. In fact this is just a Willys Sedan carb. But it sure would look nice on a MA.
ImageImage

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Re: MA 450S Carter Carb

Post by chasendeer » Tue Jun 27, 2017 1:37 pm

wo2jeeper wrote:The top is not MA. Also doubt the needle used is MA. Both differ from this one. In fact this is just a Willys Sedan carb. But it sure would look nice on a MA.
ImageImage
How can you tell the difference?
Thanks
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Re: MA 450S Carter Carb

Post by damar2yxr » Tue Jun 27, 2017 6:19 pm

OK. The first official MA carb was the 440 which was borrowed from the Willys Americar. It was superseded by the 450s and that was then retired in favor of the 539s-k1
So yes this is an MA 450s carb. The 440 does have a different looking top.
I would direct anyone interested to checkout oldjeepcarbs.freeforums.net and find out about the 440 and 450s carbs. I think anyone with a really, really early MA might have had the 440 (from the Americar) but the 450s would be in most others.
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MA 450S Carter Carb

Post by wo2jeeper » Thu Jun 29, 2017 10:43 pm

Please do your homework better. The ribbed top is never used on a MA. That is a civilian top. The 440 does have the ribbed top ans also the civillian 450s. The 450S was not exclusively for the MA. The non ribbed top with hole is for the MA's 450s. This one has not. If any of the component where used again as for the needle it even won't run proper on your Jeep. And I should also unplug the hole for your vacuum advance

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Re: MA 450S Carter Carb

Post by Scoutpilot » Fri Jun 30, 2017 2:28 am

Please do your homework better. I wish you would.
The ribbed top is never used on a MA. Can you prove this assertion? I have found nothing that would.
That is a civilian top. The 440 does have the ribbed top ans also the civillian 450s. ?
The 450S was not exclusively for the MA. No one ever said it was.
The non ribbed top with hole is for the MA’s 450s. This one has not. What was the hole’s purpose?
If any of the component where used again as for the needle it even won’t run proper on your Jeep. This carburetor has been completely rebuilt. See the video at the link.
And I should also unplug the hole for your vacuum advance Do that and it won’t run.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=39X8BCybtWw
'70-'71 'A' Batt., 377th FA, 101AB
(Slicks and LOH's)(Col's LOH Pilot)
'71-72 CHARLIE TROOP,
16TH AIR CAV, 1ST AVN BDE (AEROSCOUTS)
LOW LEVEL HELL.
'46 CJ2A
'47 CJ2A
'48 CJ2A
'48 B1PW126
'69 CJ5

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MA 450S Carter Carb

Post by wo2jeeper » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:42 am

Ok Rick, you ask me to make me prove you are wrong. We both do rebuilding Jeep carbs and for many years now. I am to the detail and did also do a few original MA ones in the 25 years I am doing rebuilts.

So I know from the originals I did yours is not an MA carb and in fact u used 539s parts to rebuilt so it is not a civilian carb either anymore. The carb in the pic is a correct MA carb, the vacuum advance should be installed when used on a MA. Note the correct top. (Also a modified one but looks better as the ribbed one) You could alter yours to make it appear as a MA 450s but it never was original build as one. Image

(The carb in your youtube is a bit to rich, in the last seconds it chokes a bit when you open and close the throttle. Did you use an original gas needle ? )

This is the vacuum advance on the MA
Image

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Re: MA 450S Carter Carb

Post by Scoutpilot » Sun Jul 02, 2017 7:22 am

Sir, You claim I used 539S parts in the rebuild. Which are they? You dispute the choke housing design. At what serial number did it change from ribbed to smooth? Finally, I never send a carburetor out with an open vacuum port. It’s designed to be removed by the owner at his discretion.
'70-'71 'A' Batt., 377th FA, 101AB
(Slicks and LOH's)(Col's LOH Pilot)
'71-72 CHARLIE TROOP,
16TH AIR CAV, 1ST AVN BDE (AEROSCOUTS)
LOW LEVEL HELL.
'46 CJ2A
'47 CJ2A
'48 CJ2A
'48 B1PW126
'69 CJ5

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MA 450S Carter Carb

Post by wo2jeeper » Sun Jul 02, 2017 8:12 am

There was no change from ribbed to smooth. Ribbed was civilian, smooth military. The pic on the original sheet shows nothing different as I try to tell. The needle (rod) in the civilian 450s is different then the one in the 539s. When you used a 539s needle and seat it will run on the Jeep as it should. Of course the plug is needed in the base when installed on a MB or GPW. But I read this was claimed as a MA carb, then there shouldn't be a plug in the base.
Last edited by wo2jeeper on Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:53 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: MA 450S Carter Carb

Post by Scoutpilot » Sun Jul 02, 2017 12:06 pm

Since neither of us was there when the important decisions were made, we must agree to disagree. As far as the 75-547 metering rod is concerned, do you have any NOS rods for the 450S?
'70-'71 'A' Batt., 377th FA, 101AB
(Slicks and LOH's)(Col's LOH Pilot)
'71-72 CHARLIE TROOP,
16TH AIR CAV, 1ST AVN BDE (AEROSCOUTS)
LOW LEVEL HELL.
'46 CJ2A
'47 CJ2A
'48 CJ2A
'48 B1PW126
'69 CJ5

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wo2jeeper
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MA 450S Carter Carb

Post by wo2jeeper » Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:27 pm

Scoutpilot wrote:Since neither of us was there when the important decisions were made, we must agree to disagree. As far as the 75-547 metering rod is concerned, do you have any NOS rods for the 450S?
that is only when you assume things, stick to what is noted then facts are real. I use written knowledge and facts. Rods I have but not for sale. Use them to do my own rebuilds.

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Re: MA 450S Carter Carb

Post by Scoutpilot » Sun Jul 02, 2017 2:35 pm

Anecdotal information is not necessarily fact.
'70-'71 'A' Batt., 377th FA, 101AB
(Slicks and LOH's)(Col's LOH Pilot)
'71-72 CHARLIE TROOP,
16TH AIR CAV, 1ST AVN BDE (AEROSCOUTS)
LOW LEVEL HELL.
'46 CJ2A
'47 CJ2A
'48 CJ2A
'48 B1PW126
'69 CJ5

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wo2jeeper
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MA 450S Carter Carb

Post by wo2jeeper » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:00 pm

Scoutpilot wrote:Anecdotal information is not necessarily fact.
oh my, how can facts be anecdotal. This is going to be silly now, sorry to say. Be aware that others read these post too and you now polute facts with these kinds of answers. That confuses for the ones researching to get correct insight.

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Re: MA 450S Carter Carb

Post by Scoutpilot » Sun Jul 02, 2017 3:48 pm

Yes. In the interest of no more confusion. You may have your facts. I will keep mine.
'70-'71 'A' Batt., 377th FA, 101AB
(Slicks and LOH's)(Col's LOH Pilot)
'71-72 CHARLIE TROOP,
16TH AIR CAV, 1ST AVN BDE (AEROSCOUTS)
LOW LEVEL HELL.
'46 CJ2A
'47 CJ2A
'48 CJ2A
'48 B1PW126
'69 CJ5


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