U.S. NAVY 87559

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Myers
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Myers » Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:28 pm

Actually..this IS the standard font.......The hood number and these numbers are the correct font (style) of numbers used by the factory and by the Navy when they re-numbered the vehicle.
Interesting! I had been told that it was not a standard USN font, and hadn't been able to prove that it was. I emailed Rick, Thanks!
Now...let's look at your vehicle's data...............
That is some amazing information! Definitely not something that I could have found on my own.

No day is stamped on the plate, only month and year. Tom Woldbolt said that it was a Richmond GPW. I've attached photos at the bottom of this post depicting the data plates and casting numbers.

The engine casting issue is very interesting, I hadn't even considered that as a possibility. While certainly not concrete evidence, one of the G503 SN databases seems to support your theory that the original 161784 block was rejected at the factory.


161266 12- 11- 43
161503 12- 7- 43
161577 12- 3- 43
161909 12- 8- 43

Those all have day month and year, and since Richmond only stamped month and year they couldn't have been from Richmond. Also, they are all from early December. However, if you do a search under January 44, you find several Richmond GPWs in the 165xxx-173xxx range.
In the beginning.........of jeep production.... all the services and foreign Governments had their own contracts with the MFG's. This created a blockage for the services to get vehicles. If Willys was making MB's for the Marines then the Army had to wait for that contract to be finished for their contract to begin . When Ordnance took over the vehicle contracts they decided all vehicles would be procured under ORD contracts and then be distributed among the various branches of service and foreign Governments.
Thank you, that cleared up a lot for me. I still have one question concerning registration numbers. When you say "when ordance took over" and "procured under ORD contracts", is that the Army Ordnance Corps?
The presence of stars or no stars does not indicate whether the vehicle was used by the Army or not. Application of the national insignia (star) was up to the area commander. Many jeeps did not have stars applied when used by the Army.
Very true, and unless I had been able to recover the bumperette or front bumper markings, I won't be able to conclusively say whether this GPW was Army/Navy, or strictly navy. Due to the circumstantial evidence, I am leaning towards this jeep having been immediately acquired by the Navy.

Thank you very much for the help. I truly appreciate it.



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1-44 Ford GPW (161784) USA 20439314, USN 87559
5-4-45 Bantam T3 (68871) USA 0948627
1945 Converto Dump (0886653)

Myers
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Myers » Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:09 pm

Jump to 5:56 for something cool :) I found the jeep from the wartime photo, it only took 5-6 hours of poking through photos and films.... It is clearly a GPW in OD Green with sprayed out blue drab markings. Everything on it matches mine perfectly, so I imagine mine was from the same area, obviously can't be 100% sure unless I could find USN87559 in a video/photo. The video shows the Sacramento courthouse as well, so I imagine the jeep was from Sacramento or San Francisco.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nsD4Fw7PoXg
1-44 Ford GPW (161784) USA 20439314, USN 87559
5-4-45 Bantam T3 (68871) USA 0948627
1945 Converto Dump (0886653)

Jim Gilmore
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Jim Gilmore » Fri Feb 17, 2017 10:38 am

"....The engine casting issue is very interesting, I hadn't even considered that as a possibility. While certainly not concrete evidence, one of the G503 SN databases seems to support your theory that the original 161784 block was rejected at the factory....."

Just to be clear....it was not the block that was rejected...if that was so your motor number would have been used on another block that day. Motor # 161784 was assembled on 11/18/43. It would have been tested after assembly and if a problem existed then it would have been dissembled and then the block scrapped. Then later that motor number would have been reused.



".... I still have one question concerning registration numbers. When you say "when ordnance took over" and "procured under ORD contracts", is that the Army Ordnance Corps?...."

Yes, that is correct...originally vehicles were Quartermaster items and were tested and procured by them.

".... It is clearly a GPW in OD Green with sprayed out blue drab markings. Everything on it matches mine perfectly, so I imagine mine was from the same area...."

Great researching!!! However....you should note that painting out the USA Reg. numbers in this manner was a SOP for many Navy/USMC jeeps and I have seen photos of other jeeps with this done in other areas of the country.

My friend Bob Notman some years back posted a couple of color photos of Navy jeeps towing a Yellow glider. These jeeps had their USA Reg. numbers painted over just like your was.

Maybe a search of the Gee would turn them up......

Jim Gilmore

Jim Thorpe, PA.

Myers
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Myers » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:28 am

Thanks for the additional information.

I know which photos you are talking about, it features a Script GPW. The army registration was blocked out with black paint with a small paint roller (mine was sprayed over with forrest green), the script jeep has yellow markings but the size and font are different.

I understand that the Navy left quite a few Army jeeps OD green and simply applied the USN number over the painted out army registration. However, the method of painting over (roller brush, regular brush, or spray), color of paint used to paint over (black, green, grey etc), font and size of USN stencils (a lot look to be free hand as well), and color of USN markings differ vastly.

I've reviewed every Navy jeep photo that I can, probably only around a hundred. However, the vast majority of Navy jeeps are painted in two lines with "U.S.N", ie:

--U.S.N.--
--87559--

The second most common format is

--U.S.N. 87559--

The third most common format is

--U.S. NAVY--
----87559----

And the least common is

--U.S. NAVY 87559--

In addition to this, I have found three Navy jeeps so far with an 87xxx number. All are GPWs, painted in the exact same format/font, and are in yellow. Nothing conclusive, but a pattern is certainly forming :)

87307 GPW in film
87326 GPW 107860 4-12-43
87559 GPW 161784 1-44
1-44 Ford GPW (161784) USA 20439314, USN 87559
5-4-45 Bantam T3 (68871) USA 0948627
1945 Converto Dump (0886653)

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Mark Tombleson
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Mark Tombleson » Fri Feb 17, 2017 2:06 pm

Jim, we did much the same thing with the marking on my MZ-1. I was fortunate enough to find both the original hood and side markings... the only Willys Overland factory marking for the Navy that I'm aware of.

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My font looks exactly the same as the GTB but the marking were 2" high with 1/2" stroke. With the dimensions and the close up photos , John of JeepDraw was able to replicate all of the letters and numbers for the markings.

This is how a contract Navy jeep came from Willys-Overland. I wrote a chapter in Lloyd White's series of books on the MB and it in are a few pages of NAVEXOS P 67. This shows the painting and marking of Navy stateside vehicles. It its dated Aug. 1944.
MB-NAVY-MZ-1 352625 - 07/20/44 (DOD est.)
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Myers
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Myers » Fri Feb 17, 2017 3:01 pm

Hi Mark,

Your MZ-1 looks fantastic! I've never been interested in Navy jeeps until I discovered the markings on mine, so I am very new to Navy/Marine corps norms.

The tailgate numbers on mine appear to be 1 3/4" high with 5/16" stroke, and the hood numbers are 2 1/2" high with 3/8" stroke.

The civilian red and navy slate grey chipped off the hood easily, but I had to sand through the blue/grey in order to find the yellow numbers. Therefore I have no idea if they were painted with flat or gloss yellow.

I was able to chip the paint more easily on the tailgate area and didn't have to sand to find every number. On the sections that chipped away right down to the yellow numbers, it appears to have been glossy yellow. I'm really not sure if it was originally glossy, or if it just appears that way after having been repainted. Do you know if they were supposed to be one or the other?

Thanks!
1-44 Ford GPW (161784) USA 20439314, USN 87559
5-4-45 Bantam T3 (68871) USA 0948627
1945 Converto Dump (0886653)

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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by macaddict23 » Fri Feb 17, 2017 11:41 pm

Myers wrote:It is clearly a GPW in OD Green with sprayed out blue drab markings.
To me, it looks like the blue drab numbers and "S" were sanded down as opposed to painted over.
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Myers
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Myers » Sat Feb 18, 2017 12:18 pm

Hi Dexter, you certainly might be correct.

I still think it was sprayed, but I could be wrong. The questionable painted/sanded area extends down onto the fender. Unless they decided to sand the top of the fender right under the hood, it has to be overspray from when they covered the blue drab. IMHO of course.
1-44 Ford GPW (161784) USA 20439314, USN 87559
5-4-45 Bantam T3 (68871) USA 0948627
1945 Converto Dump (0886653)

Myers
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Myers » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:30 am

I decided to try and track down the origins of the only two non factory holes in the dash. The bottom one had a "Cole Boston" marked push pull switch in it, it has remnants of the original harness as well as more modern wiring. There is remnants of both the blue/grey and haze grey paint on the nut, so the switch was definitely added by the Navy. The knob is missing, but I found the exact switch on another member's '45 GPW. I'm not sure what it was for, I am going to trace the wiring as best I can in order to look for clues.

The top hole looked exactly like a vacuum line hole that is on a 44 MB. That got me looking for evidence of vacuum wipers, and I noticed that the line that is plumbed off of the intake port matches the trico kit perfectly. However, those kits were routed under the hood and over the cowl; I even found evidence of what looks to be the spot where the vacuum line rubbed against the body. Any ideas?

The two non factory holes are clearly seen on the left hand side. The bottom one had the Cole switch in it.

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Here is a photo of a 44MB with a vacuum line routed through the dash. That is the only thing I could find that looked to have the same hole size and placement as what I've found on mine. However, the vacuum line on mine seems to have been routed under the hood and over the cowl, so I'm not sure what this hole was actually for.
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The same switch on a 45 GPW.
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Last edited by Myers on Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
1-44 Ford GPW (161784) USA 20439314, USN 87559
5-4-45 Bantam T3 (68871) USA 0948627
1945 Converto Dump (0886653)

Myers
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Myers » Sun Feb 19, 2017 9:41 am

This picture shows what's left of the vacuum line. It matches the Trico kit almost exactly. The tubing even has remnants of OD green, so I believe it was added while in the Navy.

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An interesting note is how the hood block was not moved in order to accommodate the vacuum wiper blade. My only guess is that maybe since it was a stateside navy jeep it wasn't ever expected to put the windshield down, so why move the hood block?

I found what looks to be a spot where the vacuum line rubbed against the body and hood. It is not in the same position as the vacuum line from the trico diagram, so it could be from a post war vacuum line routing for all I know.

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1-44 Ford GPW (161784) USA 20439314, USN 87559
5-4-45 Bantam T3 (68871) USA 0948627
1945 Converto Dump (0886653)

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Michael O.
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Re: U.S. NAVY 87559

Post by Michael O. » Fri Mar 03, 2017 7:39 pm

Boone, I think it's interesting that your 1-44 GPW has a USN registration number of 87559 yet my 3-43 GPW has a USN registration number of 88667. I guess this shows that my GPW was transferred to the Navy at a later date than yours....or perhaps was serving with the Navy for a while before it was given a USN registration number?

Mr Gilmore....good to see you on here! Do you have any thoughts on this?
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