1944 Jeep ID help - WARNING GRAPHICS INTENSIVE

[Bob W]

It's fun using all the "clues" to determine how a Jeep left the factory, what modifications were done by the miltary, and what happened during the majority of its life in civilian hands. A 24 volt Jeep needs 2 vehicle batteries, is there a place for 2 batteries on either Jeep?

[Fred Coldwell]

I was afraid the data plate would look like that. Richard Grace posted a picture of what was believed to be an original NOM data plate a while back. And it was a an aluminum plate that had the lettering silk screened on.

So, I am guessing that when they converted the jeep over, they changed the NOM data plate? Wouldn’t a 1944 WW2 jeep have the stamped data plate? Nathan

Hi Nathan:

A WW II jeep originally would have had a stamped data plate with the jeep's VIN, date of delivery, and original model designation, whether a MB. MZ-1, MZ-2, etc. But when the Navy / Marine Corps converted WW II jeeps postwar to waterproof radio jeeps with field kits, and thus changed its "working" model designation, they removed the original data plate and replaced it with a silk screen nomenclature plate that was not stamped with the VIN or date of delivery.

The VIN remained on the jeep's frame tag, so usually wasn't lost (unless a subsequent owner removed the frame tag). But the original date of delivery that was stamped only on the original data plate would be lost. Apparently, the original DOD became irrelevant to the Marine Corps once a jeep was converted. Nevertheless, other clues from which to estimate the original date of delivery might remain if the jeep retains its original engine, axles, transmission, transfer case, etc. But if those components had all been replaced during a tear down and rebuilt, the clues become more scarce.

Mark is right, it will take us a while to sort everything out. [On edit: an incorrect observation in an earlier post has been removed to avoid future confusion] The complete jeep might have been updated to 12 volts in civilian life (notice the alternator), but as Mark remind us, it should have remained 6 volts after the field kit conversion.

You are lucky to have the original frame tag and, seemingly, the original engine (and hopefully other original drive train components) in the complete jeep. Have fun unpeeling the onion.

[nlang]

The complete jeep might have been updated to 12 volts in civilian life (notice the alternator), but as Mark remind us, it should have remained 6 volts after the field kit conversion.

So are you saying that the 24v parts that I have were not installed on the jeep? One of the reasons I was excited about these parts is because I thought that I would not need to hunt them down, but if I understand you correctly, it looks like I am going to have to do that anyway. If the jeep is going to require a 6v system, then what will I need to look for? Will I need to find a waterproof generator, distributor, voltage regulator and starter? Does anyone know how difficult it is to locate them? Sorry about the confusion. Andrew and I are trying to track down the correct books for this jeep. I think he found one of them, but I’m not sure which one he found.

I am not sure who I should direct this question to, but I have been kind of curious as to the generator that is mounted between the driver and passenger seat. Would a jeep with a fording kit need to have a sealed or waterproof generator? I am guessing that a generator like the one Mark has in his pictures would not work.

Thanks for all of your help and comments.

Nathan

[Bob W]

Keep in mind that you have 3 separate things here. Radio equipment, fording equipment, and 24 volt electrical stuff. They were often used together... but not always.

Here is an article about the evolution of fording systems..
http://www.cj3a.info/sibling/cjv35u/evolution.html

[ajlang]

Bob,
Very nice site. There is a lot of good info there. One thing that is mentioned on the MX-735 kit is the following:

The distributor was replaced with a waterproof metal clad unit. The spark plugs and wires changed to waterproof "aircraft" type.

Would this be that particular unit or is this still standard M-38 24 volt stuff?



You are correct that we have three separate areas of knowledge here and given neither of us know much about these three items - this is all a bit confusing to us - so I appreciate y'alls patience.
Best regards,

Andy Lang

[Bob W]

The MX-735 kit had an Autolite distributor with an external coil or the Bendix Scintilla distributor as seen in a previous posting. The MX-735 stuff was 6 volt. Your distributor is a later Autolite unit with internal coil. Get the serial numbers from the Autolite components and we should be able to determine the date(s) they were manufactured.

[nlang]

The MX-735 kit had an Autolite distributor with an external coil or the Bendix Scintilla distributor as seen in a previous posting. The MX-735 stuff was 6 volt. Your distributor is a later Autolite unit with internal coil. Get the serial numbers from the Autolite components and we should be able to determine the date(s) they were manufactured.

I have that information written down at home, except for the information on the distributor. There is a layer of OD paint that I need to remove from the data plate first. I want to be careful doing that so I don’t damage the tag, so it might take a few days to get that information to you. I will post the rest of it when I get home this afternoon.

Thanks
Nathan

[Mark Tombleson]

If the jeep is going to require a 6v system, then what will I need to look for? Will I need to find a waterproof generator, distributor, voltage regulator and starter? Does anyone know how difficult it is to locate them? Sorry about the confusion. Andrew and I are trying to track down the correct books for this jeep. I think he found one of them, but I’m not sure which one he found.

I am not sure who I should direct this question to, but I have been kind of curious as to the generator that is mounted between the driver and passenger seat. Would a jeep with a fording kit need to have a sealed or waterproof generator? I am guessing that a generator like the one Mark has in his pictures would not work.

Nathan

I know you want to get started ASAP... and if it was a standard jeep I would say have at it. I started out that way and ended up buying radio pieces that really were not correct for the jeep. Some of these items are hard to get... others almost impossible.

Think of it this way... several individuals are actively working on their jeeps and some of the known 32 radio jeeps are restored to the point of running, but only mine to date is fully operational.

With frame #MB376929 your jeep should be an MZ-2 with all the MZ-2 features, so now we will have to find out why it does not have a hole in the glove box floor and what other features it does or does not have. This may mean your jeep was a different model... we just don't know yet!

I would say first get the two AM issues by calling MVPA right now, joining, and do what you need to do to get AM #120 & 121 so you can better understand what your jeep is about.

None of the auxiliary 12 or 24v PTO run generators were waterproof as far as I can tell. My take on this is the radios were not used while fording.

Oh, here is what a CVD-10182-D data plate looks like. #0217 has never been on a jeep as far as I can tell.



Let me show you some more features. The following show photos on other MZ-2.

Here is the front passenger’s pillar. Radio cable clips to it from the remote that fits thru the oval hole in the floor of the glove box.


The side mount antenna has a hood welded to the inside close to the driver’s side crash pad.


The underside of the rear body will have tabs welded for some ¼ “ bolts on the cable chase. There will be 4 holes on each side of the floor for each battery box and you can see some 1" drain holes. There will be 2 holes on the side of the wheel well for the battery box mounting and no holes in the floor or side of the wheel well for any foot rests, because radio jeeps did not have foot rests.


There will be 4 holes in the side and 2 in the back above the wheel wells for the radio boxes. I see the floor has been replaced by some diamond plate?

Now, if you MB doesn't have these features... it is not an MZ, but something else. Have you sanded down anywhere to see what the original primer and finish paint is?

[nlang]

Mark,
Thanks for the info. As you said I would like to get started on it ASAP, but it will have to wait for a while. Currently my brother Andy and I have two other jeep projects on the shop floor. We have his slat grill and a 45 MB. The other reason I will have to wait is because I want to make sure I have all possible information and a good direction to go in with this jeep. I will probably be asking you, Fred and others on the G for help in this. The only work that I plan to do on it is for the purpose of gathering information to post here. So if anyone wants me to look for something, let me know and I will see what I can do. The reason I was asking about the radio and other equipment is because I am trying to get an idea of what I am in for with this jeep. I would like to be able to start looking around for the equipment I will need, but it isn’t a priority at the moment.

From what I can tell by looking at the photos you posted and from what I have been reading, it looks as though water would be able to come up through the hole in the floor for the generator when the jeep is fording. I didn’t think that the radios would be used while fording, but I was wondering if the generator would be damaged if it was submerged.

I will look over the jeep and photograph the areas that you pointed out in your last post and put up the pictures as soon as I get them. If the weather is good this Saturday, I plan on rolling the jeep outside and looking under the layers of paint to try and find numbers that might be there.

Here is the information from the data plates for the 24v Auto-Lite system.

Generator 24-v DC
Rating 25A
Type I
Calss B
Grade 1
Speed range 1750-8000
Spec No. AXS-1788, Rev2
Ordn No 7524310
Mfrs No GHA 4802 BUT
Serial No H539166

Starter 24V DC
Spec No AXS-1851
Mfr’s No MBP430IUT
Type II
Ordn No 7762616
Serial No J355911

Generator Regulator
Volt DC 24
Spec No. Mil-R-10265
Ordn No 7524309
Rating 25A
Mfr’s No VBC4002UT
Serial No 4H111959

I hope this helps. I will try to get the information on the distributor as soon as I can get the paint off of it. I am also going to try and get the numbers off the tub gusset.

[Bob W]

Autolite date codes use H for 1953 and J for 1954. Usually the month number precedes the year, like on your voltage regulator. 4H is April 1953.

Very interesting stuff!!

[ajlang]

I took some more pictures of the parts jeep (the one without a tag).

Here is a picture of the glovebox. It would appear that it has the three screw holes for the hinged type of box.










I did not see any indications of any modifications to the engine compartment.






Picture of body gusset. Number on gusset is 2180.







Appears to be faint lettering on the passenger side that is USMC.



Dont know if this means anything, but there are two neatly drilled holes at the gun mount. There may be another pair behind it, but that area of the floor is rotted away.



Here is a picture of the filterette.



Mark - I did not notice your posting until I came in and did not get a picture - but it definetely had the hood shown in this picture on the drivers side.



Thanks for the help all.
Andy

[Richard Grace]

Andy, your data plates are the USMC replacement plates that were printed or silk screened rather than etched. The original information was similar to the factory plates except that "USMC motor transport" was the maintaining arm. I've never seen these plates with any numbers stamped into them. They were usually very crudely rivited to the glove box door. If you'll email me direct, I'll send you a picture of the most complete USMC data plate that I have ever seen. Also a converted radio jeep would probably have a hinged glove box door rather than the quick detachable one that Mark shows on the contract radio jeep.

[nlang]

Here is a picture of the glove box on the complete jeep. MB376929





Passenger side tool box top


Driver side


some of the holes on the bottom of the jeep. The floor has diamond plate over it but the original floor is still there.




Some interesting piping that I think is part of the fording kit.






There is no hood at the driver side crash pad.

[Bob W]

This photo shows the vent line from the fuel tank coming out of the firewall and connecting to the left dash tee fitting. Another line goes down to the master cylinder cap and the last line heads across the firewall to the right dash tee and on to the air filter. It's interesting that the fuel system was connected to the brake system by these lines. Fuel in the brakes just can't be good! Later venting systems separated the brake vent from the others.

[Mark Tombleson]

Hey… great photos.
So, what we may have learned here is MB-376929 is not originally a contract Navy radio jeep. We will have to look further but so far it has no features. That is so strange as it is only 5 jeeps away from a known MZ-2. It was converted using one of the several MX series deep water fording and power supply kits.

The other jeep, what Andy calls the parts jeep has a straight gusset and is most likely a MB-NOM-12 (MZ) radio jeep.
The body number, 2180, fits right into the other MB-NOM-12 and MB-Navy-MZ-1 bodies know to exist.
2072
2180 This is yours and Nathans
3721
3790
3818
3859
4092
4235 This is mine.
Here is a photo of my gusset.