iowa's L-4 project!

[L-4JFlyer]

Dave -

Not all L-4s had a shock mounted instrument panel. Only the L-4J and L-4H.

The oberver's desk was a flat wood stock, which was screwed to tabs welded onto the fuselage.

The front seat belts were still attached to the front seat, same as the J-3. The rear seat belts were different than the J-3.

The tubing stubs were there for leveling the airplane on the ground, to help ground crews set dihedral, etc.

There is another difference in the window mount strips on the fuselage, and the upper door. The J-3's upper door had the glass screwed to the internal tubing, where as the L-4 had metal strips welded to the tubing, and the window was affixed using screws, nuts, and washers.

You might want to to start with the Cub Club, and order the drawings they have.

Jim

[iowa]

thanks jim
it is pretty hard to get info on the cub forums!
it is much easier to get info here on the G.
and jon's drawings are very, very cheap.
the cub club's are much higher.
but i have sent for all the L4,
and some the the J3 drawings and SST's
thanks for your help
dave

ps i somehow think i just should have bought your L4

[L-4JFlyer]

I'd be more than happy to sell it to you .... It just completed it's annual, and is back in the air for another summer!

No pressure, of coarse ....


Jim

[MARNE]

Hey Iowa,

Heres the photos I promised of the U.S. 3rd Infantry Division's Scout Observation Squadron attached to the various field artillery battalions under the U.S. 3rd Infantry Division's Artillery Headquarter section.

A good book for reference into the life of the Scout Observation pilots with the U.S. 3rd Infantry Division is the book:

"Grasshopper Pilot: A Memoir" by Julian William Cummings

Mr. Cummings flew 485 missions in two theatres of operations during World War II in both L-4's and L-5's.

I hope you and the guys enjoy these photos of the L-4's belonging to the U.S. 3rd Infantry Division....

Enjoy...

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p254 ... D_L4-1.jpg

Notation: Devol's Piper Cub awaits the historic test flight from the improvised runway built on the deck of LST-386 at Lake Bizerte, July 4th, 1943, before heading off at full throttle.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p254 ... D_L4-8.jpg

Notation: Success! Captain Devol proves that Piper Cubs with be able to take part in the imminent invasion of Sicily by piloting the first plane to take off successfully from the deck of an LST.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p254 ... D_L4-2.jpg

Notation: Staff Sgt. "Smitty" Smith(Left) and Bill in front of Smitty's Cub, Wilma Elaine.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p254 ... D_L4-3.jpg

Notation: Martha Raye and Bill in North Africa, next to his Piper Cub, Maggie the Faithful.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p254 ... D_L4-4.jpg

Notation: This photo was taken at Cavalaire France 1944. The pilot in the picture is Wilfred M. Boucher, formerly of the 41st Field Artillery.
Boucher had an extra fuel tank, and when he switched over to it an air bubble caused him to stall out and plop in the ocean. The navy put him and his plane on the beach.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p254 ... D_L4-5.jpg

Notation: Group of pilots and mechanics in front of "Janey" on the flight deck of LST 906 in the harbor at Naples, Italy. Photo was taken the day before the August 15, 1944 invasion of southern France. (Top row, left to right:) Alfred W. Schultz, W.H. "Fred" Boucher, Edwin "Irv" Rosner, Hubert N. Boone, W.A. "Bill" Richards, Robert N. Peterson, Arlie E. Schumacher, Warren T. Reis. (Bottom row, left to right:) Theodore J. Royston, David P. Guthrie, William K. Baker, George W. Desrassers, John E. Samsa, Wesley W. Kelly.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p254 ... D_L4-6.jpg

Notation: L-4's belonging to the U.S. 9th, 10th, 39th and 41st Field Artillery Battalions lined up and stowed aboard an LST.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p254 ... D_L4-7.jpg

Notation: An L-4 belonging to the U.S. 39th Field Artillery Battalion sits next to the snow strip near Riedwihr during the Colmar Pocket campaign

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p254 ... D_L4-9.jpg

Notation: An Army Piper L-4 Cub artillery observation plane takes off from LST-386 at Anzio, 1944.

http://i130.photobucket.com/albums/p254 ... _L4-10.jpg

Notation: Invasion of southern France, St. Tropez, circa August - September 1944. The photo of LST-906 came with the attached message:

"Here is the photo of LST-906 with Capt. Alfred "Dutch" Schultz as pilot of 'Janey' the L4B Piper Cub artillery spotting plane. This information comes from Dutch Schultz's book "Janey: A Little Plane in a Big War". Dutch was the Pilot of the plane that my Dad flew in and took pictures for the 3rd Division. I met him last year and he remembered my Dad from more than 55 years ago. The Seabees converted the LST-906 into a homemade aircraft carrier, which was used in the Invasion of Southern France at St. Tropez."

Hope these help you out Iowa and enjoy...

Kind Regards,
MARNE

[iowa]

thank you very much!!
i did really enjoy them.
i now collecting all the books
i can about L4's
dave

[iowa]

i have sent for and
received the following info from clyde smith.
according to his records for my L-4B:

serial number 9433
registration number 43-572
and fuselage s/n should be 9258

i have a fuselage plate with s/n of 9433!!!
it corresponds to reg. # 43-731 and s/n 9592!!

isn't it incredible that my L-4B
was repaired at one time with another fuselage
that has a fuselage s/n # identical
to the original plane's s/n???!!!
this is why i thot that the planes s/n
and the fuselage serial number were the same.
but their not!!
what are the odds of this happening?

what do you make of this?
i have the fuselage data plate
(the bent 90 degree one with 9433
and the rectangular one with 43-572)
isn't there another one that tells
the original s/n of the plane?
it seems so in this pic of an L4

[L-4JFlyer]

Dave -

The fuselage tag, which is the bent piece of metal that sits above your head while sitting in the back seat, is merely a serial number for the fuslage itself.

The AAF/AAC had an acceptance plate, which is the one you hold right now. These are nothing more than assigning the airplane a military serial number, also listing the acceptance date, etc.

Piper affixed a regular Piper serial dataplate to the airplane as well. This would be the manufacture serial number, with the date of manufacture. The fuselage and Piper serial numbers should NOT match.

There are several reasons you have a fuselage tag that is the same as the Piper serial number. It could be that the fuslage was replaced with that one, it's possible that someone made a fuslage tag (or found that one) and attached it to the fuselage. Some people believe that the numbers are supposed to match (even a few FAA inspectors out there). The Piper serial number is the important one.

When the L-4s that were surplussed were sent out the door, many of them were re-registered and listed as 1946 Piper J-3s. Mine escaped, as it was not surplussed until 1975, so it is still listed as an L-4.

What is your registration listing as the model, serial, etc?

Jim

[iowa]

hi jim
my L4 is registered as a Piper J3C-65 with s/n 9433
Can this be changed back to the original?
i do not have the piper s/n plate. Can i have one made?
i also do not have an airworthiness certifcate.
when the plane is done does the A+P, AI apply for one
with form ACA-305?
i think now that the 7433 fuselage plate is fake?
the other one seen below looks right
thanks for all your help
dave

[L-4JFlyer]

Dave,

I agree, it looks like the 9433 fuslage tag is a fake. Could it be that someone used the J-3 fuselage (with the 21xxx fuselage tag), then created a 9433 tag to put on the fuselage to make it "right"?

To get an airworthiness certificate, you have to have a conformity inspection completed by the FAA (or a Designated Airworthiness Representative, if the FAA sends it to one). It used to be that all you needed was a logbook entry showing the last annual, and a manufacture dataplate, but there were too many people getting airworthiness certificates for airplanes that were destroyed in accidents, for which the FAA had pulled the airworthiness certificate, so they changed the way things are handled. (At least that is the way the FAA explained it to me at the MSP FSDO.) The FAA, or DAR, might want to inspect the airplane at different points along the rebuild. I'd start checking on that before getting too far into the rebuild.

Jim

[iowa]

hi jim
thanks for info
i too think the 9433 fuselage plate is fake.
s.o. thot it should match the piper plate and made it up!!
i think that i will repair this fuselage
and have clyde smith make me another plate
witht the correct # on it.
i haven't done it yet,
but plan to contact the FAA
about getting another piper man. plate.
i have plenty of paperwork that this is an L-4.
then need to follow your protocol above
to get it built and airworthy
thanks
dave

[iowa]

has anyone seen or bought this CD?

http://www.airbornemedia.com/store/coll ... l-4(fa3671)/

dave

[tonyhoskins]

Right, help please. I need to source (or make) an authentic compass card holder for my L4 cub. does anybody out there have one spare, or indeed could anybody make a drawing please so I can fabricate one.

Rgds

Tony

[GIJOE]

That's really neat stuff about your project Dr. Dave. Too Cool!


I found something interesting inside the AOPA Magazine 07/07:

1. From Reader Mike Piccola: What two aircraft were involved in the last
dogfight in Europe as WW-II came to an end in that theater?

Answer:

The American pilot of an unarmed Piper L-4 Grasshopper named Miss Me and his observer
dove at a German Fieseler Storch and downed the aircraft using their .45-caliber pistols and
a .30-caliber M-1 rifle in April 1945.

[Oilleaker1]

Hey Iowa, I knew you were nuts like the rest of us, but never knew you were a propeller smeller! I seem to recall Henry Fonda flying in a fog during the movie "Battle of the Bulge". Was that your plane or a cub? Trivia question . I believe you will get it together and fly it. Great hobby you have. John

[L-4JFlyer]

Oilleaker -

I have to watch the movie again, but I believe he was filmed in a Stinson L-5. Is that right? ... Now I have to go to my movie archives!

Jim