White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

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Big D
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White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

Post by Big D » Tue Oct 24, 2017 10:05 pm

Hi all,

I recently picked up some NOS troop seats for my White Scout Car, and I am looking to get them fitted on the vehicle. This scout car is in the Australian AOP (Armoured Observation Post) layout and it has a shelf at the rear, so there is only room for 4 seats to go in.

I am going to fit the two seats that go in the middle of the floor, in front of the centre foot-well, as well as the two seats behind the driver seat and passenger seat.

Can anyone provide some photos of the layout of these seats please? My floor is all repro so I have nothing to work off for the seat placement. I've scoured the net and also looked at David Doyle's book but close-up photos of the seat placement are hard to find.

For the seats nearest the front of the vehicle, can anyone give me the measurement from the front edge of the seat to the edge of the side foot-well please? Are the piano hinges for these fitted flat? That is, one side of the hinge bolted flat to the front of the seat, and the other side bolted flat to the floor?

For the seats in the middle of the vehicle, can anyone give me the measurement from the front of the seat to the edge of the centre foot-well please? What is the spacing between the seats?

Any assistance would be appreciated.
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
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RCASSIN
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Re: White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

Post by RCASSIN » Thu Oct 26, 2017 2:55 pm

If you have a Facebook account, this guys are good and would be able to send you pictures or they might already be on the site. I just bought a Scout car. Not deilvered yet, but the rear is not correct...: https://www.facebook.com/groups/308309445897727/
2000 USMC Kawasaki KLR 650
42 WLA Harley
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Big D
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Re: White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

Post by Big D » Thu Oct 26, 2017 10:27 pm

Hi there,

That's a great idea. Thanks. I will head over there now and post the question.
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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Re: White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

Post by Big D » Sat Aug 25, 2018 12:32 pm

Hi all,

I've yet to get hold of these measurements for the troop seat placement. Can anyone assist please?
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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RCASSIN
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Re: White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

Post by RCASSIN » Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:06 pm

I will try and see if I can help. I dont have all the seats, I have one but I presume the holes in the rear of the car will line up where the seats should be. Rob
2000 USMC Kawasaki KLR 650
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41 M-20 BSA
76 Condor
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Re: White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

Post by RCASSIN » Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:08 pm

I will try and see if I can help. I dont have all the seats, I have one but I presume the holes in the rear of the car will line up where the seats should be. Rob
2000 USMC Kawasaki KLR 650
42 WLA Harley
41 600 Zundapp
41 M-20 BSA
76 Condor
42 Diamond T Halftrack
42 Scout car

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Re: White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

Post by Big D » Sat Aug 25, 2018 4:12 pm

Hi Rob

That would be much appreciated. I have had these seats lying around for a while now and would like to get them fitted into the right place.

Thanks.
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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RCASSIN
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Re: White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

Post by RCASSIN » Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:03 pm

I have pictures with the measurements. Here are the measurements: Front seats: I measured from the front bulk head to the right front screw hole of the seat 2 1/2 inches. 17 1/2 inches from the drivers side armor to the same front right side screw hole. All the front screw holes matched the exiting holes of the floor which for the most part original, 3 holes. On my floor there were are no screw holes for the rear of the seats?? This picture may be confusion because someone added a floor board where there should be no floor, right in front of the seats.

The middle seats: 35 1/2 inches from the rear armor to the left front hole of the seat. 7 3/4 inches from the tool box. The same left front screw hole. There are 3 holes in the rear of the floor to match the rear of the seats unlike the front seats.

Rear seats: 6 1/2 inches from the rear armor, on the right hole , front right. 19 1/8 from the passenger side Armor on the same hole, right front. The rear seat holes did match the floor.

I know this may be a little confusion. Hopefully the pictures will help. I would also try and get a second measurement from another car.

The pictures start with the front, middle and then rear.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uzU6JeG7PB6nAFWJA
2000 USMC Kawasaki KLR 650
42 WLA Harley
41 600 Zundapp
41 M-20 BSA
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17thAirborne
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Re: White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

Post by 17thAirborne » Mon Aug 27, 2018 11:30 am

RCASSIN wrote:
Sun Aug 26, 2018 5:03 pm
I have pictures with the measurements. Here are the measurements: Front seats: I measured from the front bulk head to the right front screw hole of the seat 2 1/2 inches. 17 1/2 inches from the drivers side armor to the same front right side screw hole. All the front screw holes matched the exiting holes of the floor which for the most part original, 3 holes. On my floor there were are no screw holes for the rear of the seats?? This picture may be confusion because someone added a floor board where there should be no floor, right in front of the seats.

The middle seats: 35 1/2 inches from the rear armor to the left front hole of the seat. 7 3/4 inches from the tool box. The same left front screw hole. There are 3 holes in the rear of the floor to match the rear of the seats unlike the front seats.

Rear seats: 6 1/2 inches from the rear armor, on the right hole , front right. 19 1/8 from the passenger side Armor on the same hole, right front. The rear seat holes did match the floor.

I know this may be a little confusion. Hopefully the pictures will help. I would also try and get a second measurement from another car.

The pictures start with the front, middle and then rear.

https://photos.app.goo.gl/uzU6JeG7PB6nAFWJA
Rob,
Thanks for taking the time to contribute to the M3A1 knowledge with details and pics. Much appreciated by us all :D
Oz

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Big D
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Re: White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

Post by Big D » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:22 pm

That's awesome Rob! Many thanks for taking the time to measure this. I will get onto this in the next few days and get these seats fitted.
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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RCASSIN
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Re: White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

Post by RCASSIN » Mon Aug 27, 2018 12:44 pm

No problemo... I figured that once you get the one hole measurement, it would be easy to use your seats as a template. The one problem that I saw on my floor is there were no holes in the floor for the rear holes of the seats, only the front seats. The 4 other seats did have the holes that lined up with the holes in the floor. I am pretty sure that that part of the floor is original. I wonder if this is the case with other SCs?
2000 USMC Kawasaki KLR 650
42 WLA Harley
41 600 Zundapp
41 M-20 BSA
76 Condor
42 Diamond T Halftrack
42 Scout car

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Re: White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

Post by Big D » Mon Aug 27, 2018 5:34 pm

Hi Rob,

I’ve just been in the back of my scout car checking out these measurements. The dimensions for the middle seats all make sense. With those measurements, the middle seats seem to sit right on the point where the top of the floor pit meets with the floor panels which makes perfect sense (see my photo). Has your floor got an extra panel over the pit?

I am not sure on the front seats. They should have a piano hinge attached to them which allows them to rock forward over their respective floor pits. I have attached a couple of pictures I borrowed off the net and a picture from David Doyle’s book. I've also attached some pictures of an unrestored Australian scout car at Puckapunyal Museum in Australia. This shows a series of holes the which could be for the piano hinges for the front seats.

What I am trying to confirm for the front seats is how the piano hinge is attached to the seat (just three bolts or spot welded?) and how and where the piano hinge is attached to the floor. Are the piano hinges for these fitted flat? That is, one side of the hinge bolted flat to the front of the seat, and the other side bolted flat to the floor, or is the hinge folded over? The picture in David Doyle’s book suggests the hinge is fitted flat and maybe spot welded to the underside of the front of the seat.

So I'm wondering, are the holes in your floor panels from bolting the seat direct to the floor, or are they holes from the piano hinge? This would be why there are no holes for the rear of the seat, as they are meant to lift upwards. I guess it is possible your floor panels have been changed when the extra piece was put in there, and the piano hinges and seats removed then.

My scout car is the Australian AOP version with a rear shelf and so it doesn’t have the rear seats.
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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RCASSIN
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Re: White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

Post by RCASSIN » Tue Aug 28, 2018 6:27 am

Hi Darryl, My front floor does not have hinges and there are 2 pieces of newer diamond floor board that has covered the step or box. Sounds like more money for me to get it correct. So I assume all the SCs had hinges? Well good luck. I will be learning from you. Rob
2000 USMC Kawasaki KLR 650
42 WLA Harley
41 600 Zundapp
41 M-20 BSA
76 Condor
42 Diamond T Halftrack
42 Scout car

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RCASSIN
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Re: White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

Post by RCASSIN » Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:21 am

Oh, I see now... The seat has the hinge, right? Rob
2000 USMC Kawasaki KLR 650
42 WLA Harley
41 600 Zundapp
41 M-20 BSA
76 Condor
42 Diamond T Halftrack
42 Scout car

Big D
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Re: White M3A1 Scout Car troop seat placement

Post by Big D » Thu Aug 30, 2018 6:41 pm

Hi Rob,

I will have another look at these this weekend. I will hopefully fit the centre seats and I may just run with the idea that the hinge is spot welded to the seat and bolt the hinge to the floor using the measurements you provided. I need to get it sorted sooner or later!
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car


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