Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

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Big D
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number

Post by Big D » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:03 pm

Hi Clint

Thanks for that. All I need is about 8 hours more per day and pockets that are a darned sight deeper!
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car


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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number

Post by Big D » Wed Jan 04, 2017 11:13 pm

Hi Jeff,

Many thanks for those dimensions. I also got some other details from Sly but hadn’t quite put it all together. Your measurements have helped me finalise what I need to do. I have fabricated a couple of pieces but can I confirm the 30 degree fold you talk about please? Does the 30 degrees refer to a fold upwards of 30 degrees from the flat? That is, if I lie the mount flat on a table on the long side (the one with the rounded end), the other end is angled up 30 degrees from the horizontal?

Good point to about the screws for the brake drums. I got some replacement screws for the damaged ones I have and I was just going to use some of that marine grease on them to stop them freezing up again. Some of those screws you suggest might be a better option though.
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number

Post by SURPDLR » Thu Jan 05, 2017 3:52 am

Big D wrote:Hi Jeff,

Many thanks for those dimensions. I also got some other details from Sly but hadn’t quite put it all together. Your measurements have helped me finalise what I need to do. I have fabricated a couple of pieces but can I confirm the 30 degree fold you talk about please? Does the 30 degrees refer to a fold upwards of 30 degrees from the flat? That is, if I lie the mount flat on a table on the long side (the one with the rounded end), the other end is angled up 30 degrees from the horizontal?

Good point to about the screws for the brake drums. I got some replacement screws for the damaged ones I have and I was just going to use some of that marine grease on them to stop them freezing up again. Some of those screws you suggest might be a better option though.
Take a look at the side view photo. 30 Degrees is measured on the outside of the bend. Side view also gives you the rivet and arm assembly detail.

Flat (countersunk) socket headed screws make brake drum removal much easier in the future. I started using them on Brake drums 30 years ago with my first M715, and have not looked back! I also put a dab of never seize on the threads out of principle.
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number

Post by Big D » Thu Jan 05, 2017 9:26 am

Hi Jeff,

Thanks for that. Maybe it is an optical illusion with the photograph as the outer angle appears a lot higher than 30 degrees (maybe 60 degrees?). I would have thought 30 degrees would give a very steep angle for the supporting rod but I'll check that out further.

Many thanks for your help.
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number

Post by SURPDLR » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:06 am

Big D wrote:Hi Jeff,

Thanks for that. Maybe it is an optical illusion with the photograph as the outer angle appears a lot higher than 30 degrees (maybe 60 degrees?). I would have thought 30 degrees would give a very steep angle for the supporting rod but I'll check that out further.

Many thanks for your help.
Fair enough, it was one of those days yesterday... I was working backwards from 90 degrees.... So yes, from flat it would be 60 degrees. Just another case of hurry up, and screw up! ;)

Something I can add here from working with my friends M20 is that "dry fitting" the rods and Engine covers would be good. Using a torch to "fine tune" the angle after welding in place may not be the worst idea. One side of his drops right into the hole, the other side has tension to get the rod into the hole.
JEFF HAIN-MATSON
FRONT LINE MILITARY VEHICLES
WRIGHTSVILLE PA
717-252-4489

INDIAN 741
INDIAN 841
MATCHLESS G3
MATCHLESS G3L
AND SEVERAL OTHER WHEELED AND TRACKED TOYS!!

MVPA #1833
IMPS #1726
MVT #9362

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number

Post by Big D » Thu Jan 05, 2017 10:47 am

Hi Jeff

That's awesome! Thanks for that. I am a bit slow getting my head around some of these things but that explains it nicely.

That is great advice to about the engine covers. I hadn't even considered that, and with me fabricating these brackets, I think that approach will be in order.

By the way - I haven't forgotten about looking for those gun parts. There is M8 stuff everywhere at present so am just trying to get through it all to see if I still have some spares.
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number

Post by Big D » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:44 pm

Hi all,

Just a short update on progress on the M8.

I had some OD paint mixed up by a local vehicle paint specialist, using a Lustreless OD sample provided by Midwest Military. The paint supplied by the local company was a two pack with paint and hardener, with a matting agent in the paint to give it a flat look.

I got some of the painted parts back and the painter and I learnt an interesting lesson in the application of paint with matting agents in it. As you can see, some of the parts have a semi-gloss look to it, while others have the correct flat look. The painter worked out that the best way to apply the paint was by way of a ‘dusting’. When he painted some of the parts like he would have painted a car, layering the paint on a bit heavier, then it came out shinier. I’ve also since heard that too much hardener can have this effect. The finish on the brake backing plate as pictured is bang-on compared to the paint sample I had, so I am happy with the mix. We’ll just have to monitor the application and finish.

We started working on the front floor yesterday. As you will recall, I had two options; one was to tear the armoured floor out and fabricate a new sheet metal floor using the bulge and a couple of other parts from the old floor piece I bought in Europe. Option 2 was to leave the armoured floor in place and build it up again to what it would have looked like.

In the end, I have gone with a combination of both. I had already taken out the rear part of the armoured floor as the welds had fractured and needed cleaning up and re-welding. We have used what we could off the old part of the floor which was the diff bulge and spigot for the steering box shaft and the mount for the foot accelerator pedal. We have aligned everything as it should be and are in the process of stitch welding the remnants of the old floor onto the underside of the armoured floor.

We have also created a flange to go around the top of the floor around the join between the bulge and the armoured floor. We will mig weld around this to create a seam and then use a sealer to seal it off underneath. It should look nice and tidy once I clean the welding up with a flap disc.

I figured there was just too much time and cost involved in gouging out the armoured floor, cleaning up the hull and then recreating almost from scratch a new sheet metal floor with the bulge placed into it.

I'll post some more pictures next week after we've finished the welding.
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number

Post by Big D » Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:22 am

Hi all,

Here are a few more photos of the progress on the floor and rear wall of the hull.

The front floor diff bulge is now in place. I debated sanding back the weld around the flange but I think it looks pretty good as it is. It may not look quite right compared with period photos, but then what was right? I’ll complete the section over the front cross member once the centre part of the floor is done and I can work out how it will all meet.

I fabricated the rear panel in the fighting compartment using some sheet metal. In the end I opted for a simple flat sheet, rather than the original’s angled pressed shape in the middle. Some heat was required to straighten the cross member in the engine bay to get the panel to sit flat. The panel should do the job and look good but I’ve yet to weld on the threaded fixing points for the grenade and flare boxes.

Using a pattern I made up from photos and measurements from the hull, I cut the rear floor piece. With the aid of my engineering guys we have folded it up to the right angles of the floor. It looks like it will fit nicely, although I didn’t quite get the shape of the rearmost mounting fold right. The corners should have followed the angled sides of the hull, but overall it is not too bad so far.

I still need to cut the centre of the rear floor next and build it up to the right height and angle to meet the centre floor section. To do that though, I need to work out where it will meet the centre floor piece, so I need to get onto cutting, folding and welding that centre section up next. To that end, I could use some assistance with the dimensions of that centre piece.

I’ve attached a picture of the centre floor piece I'm going to fabricate. I’m not sure where I downloaded the the picture from now and in fact I think it is an M20 floor, but hopefully the owner doesn’t mind me using it!

Can anyone give me the dimensions of this piece please as shown on the photo? I know this section doesn’t totally follow the shape of the cross member underneath it. From what I can see it is angled to follow the shape of the cross member on the co-driver side and flat where the water jerry can will sit on the driver's side. I'm just not sure of the width and angles on this side though.

Where does the rear section of floor meet with the centre section? I like the idea of being able to remove the floor pieces so I’d like to bolt the rear and centre sections together if I can. I get the impression that they join just rearward of the cross-member, but I'd like to get confirmation of that please.

Any help would be appreciated!

Thanks.
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number

Post by sly22 » Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:38 am

hello

first i translate

and when i have some minutes i go ...

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number

Post by Big D » Tue Mar 21, 2017 11:24 pm

Hi all,

A few pictures added just to show the completed floor pieces.

The centre floor piece has an interesting shape to it and I figure the original manufacturing would have involved some complicated pressing. I had to get my compass out to get the folds right for some of the angles, but it is not looking bad. The fit is pretty good. Thanks for the measurements David.

I had to improvise a little at the front where the centre floor piece meets the front cross member. The front of the original centre floor piece was pressed such that it has a step at the front and I wasn’t easily able to recreate that. Also, because there was nothing useable left of the old sheet metal front floor that the centre floor piece would normally bolt down on top of, I had to make up some packers to lift the centre floor piece to the right height up off the cross member. I also had to make a small false floor for the gearstick housing mounting. I think it all looks pretty good though.

I’ve made the floor so that I can take out the centre section relatively easily. That is, the fixing points between the centre floor and rear floor pieces are on the rear floor, rather than the other way around. I’m not sure when and if removing the centre floor will be required but I figure it could be handy. With that centre floor piece coming out first, I figure the rear floor could be taken out underneath if required.

I’ve extended the front armoured floor back to the area over the front cross member, where it originally would have been. I’ve also made up a small surround around the area where the gearstick housing is. I’ve followed the original shape of the armoured floor in doing this. Most of the pictures I’ve seen of armoured front floors have a circular cut-out around the gearstick housing, but I have seen one other photograph of an armoured floor with an angled cut-out like my one has.

I don’t have the correct fixed driver seat, nor do I have the correct mount for the co-driver seat. In the end I fabricated two mounts from photographs of the originals to mount the two seats I did have. I need to get some torsion springs of the right size though for the locking plate that holds the seat back up. I don’t figure the driver’s seat will be folded back too often, and I guess you have to work with what you’ve got. I’ll keep an eye out for the correct driver’s seat and hopefully one will turn up one day.

The pictures show the seats and extinguisher mount just sitting in place for the moment. I still need to finish the drilling and tapping for the seat bases as well as drilling the holes around the sides of the floor pieces for the securing bolts.

In between time on the floor, I’ve done a few repairs on the inner and outer front guards. The inner ones are just about done now but there is some work in the outer front guards. There are some tricky folds in these and the rust appears to have developed in the hardest folds to create.

I think I’m getting there…..
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number

Post by finhead » Sat Apr 22, 2017 8:56 pm

Do still have the extra m6 sleigh you had pictured by itself. I need one thanks Jerry

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number

Post by seacon » Mon May 29, 2017 9:46 am

So, what's new?

ciao
m

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number

Post by Big D » Mon May 29, 2017 10:57 pm

Hi Seacon

Thanks for reminding me. I will post an update with pictures tomorrow.
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number

Post by DDTrustee » Tue May 30, 2017 3:30 pm

Darryl: I went back and reviewed you lengthy post - WOW!!!!! you started with Swiss cheese and made American cheese out of it.....LOL. I used a couple of your dimensions.....My M8 cam back from Greece and they cut the mine racks of and shortened the spaces in both the top and bottom bars - I will use your 11 and 19 cm dimensions to cut off and respace my mine racks.....the correct M1 mines do not fit in my racks - rack is the issue not the repro mines.
helluva restoration! when you finish it will be AS NEW! and considering wartime production shortcuts it will probably look nattier
reenacting and WWII history

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number

Post by Big D » Tue May 30, 2017 11:10 pm

Hi Dan,

Thanks for that. I'm not sure it is American cheese yet, although it is slowly coming back from the death!

Glad to hear the dimensions are of use. Are your parts on the way yet? Mine left Belgium a few weeks ago.
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car
1945 Ford M20 Armoured Car


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