Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by DaninNM » Tue Oct 31, 2017 9:30 am

dash wiring harness I'll let go for $10 and postage. AND, AV Gas has no ethanol whatsoever.....more expensive but much more volatile so that aged AV gas is still AV gas....no so for MO gas.
me:....chemical engineer that worked for the petroleum industry and at a refinery
reenacting and WWII history

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by John Neuenburg » Sat Nov 04, 2017 1:35 pm

John Neuenburg wrote:
Sun Oct 29, 2017 2:05 pm
I also thought all the tanks went into the shroud but with those molded-in grooves for the hold down straps on both of mine, that wouldn't make sense. Are the standalone tanks heavier? The stencils on my spare say 61 pounds and I believe it! Dated 1943.

I'll post some photos of my spare if and when Photobucket starts cooperating. The free version doesn't work well for me.
Here are some photos of my spare which is like the one in my car. Note the grooves for the hold-down straps:

Image

Image

Image

November 1943
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Tank, Fuel, Bullet Sealing
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Military Vehicle Collectors of California

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44 Ford M20
42 GPW, Special Air Service replica
41 Indian 640
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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by Big D » Sun Nov 12, 2017 10:31 pm

Hi all,

While we are on the subject of fuel cells, I thought I’d provide another update on how I got on with mine in the end.

As 1944M8 said, the screws and nuts holding the panels at each end of the shroud are a bugger to get out. I had to use vice grips on the head of each screw as a screwdriver was just not going to do it. The cardboard inside was for the most part still in one piece but there was lots of loose rust inside. The sheet metal on my enclosure was obviously not as good as I thought and I think the paint was the only thing holding some of it together. There was also some fibreglass repairs, presumably done by the Italians?

The cell itself had obviously hardened over time as it was an absolute pig to get out of the enclosure. As you can see by the photos, I had to resort to creative ways to get it out of the shroud and all up I must have spent 4 hours mucking around with different methods to try to drag it out. In the end, I finally got it out of the enclosure far enough where I could remove the filler cap and then I put the crane hook on the cell itself which really got it moving.

The cell itself still looks in reasonable condition but I won’t be using it. The idea of taking that out again if there is a problem makes me cringe! I will opt for a stainless steel tank option I think.

The courier dropped off a nice package the other day. Lots of electrical conduit including the elusive junction box that sits on the engine cross member. I had not seen another one of these around so many thanks to Reg for these.

I have a number of engine blocks to drop off to the reconditioners to see what they can do with them. All need lots of work but I’m sure they can make one good engine out of this lot. I have new pistons and sleeves and now need to order the right bearings etc. It looks like one of the blocks had some service with the Greeks.
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by Big D » Mon Dec 04, 2017 2:11 am

Hi all,

Here is another update on the M8.

The sandblaster is a bit snowed under with work, and things haven’t progressed yet on the blasting and painting, so while I’ve been waiting I’ve been working on a few other things.

I’ve been doing the final repairs on all the sheet metal. In keeping with this M8’s very ‘used’ look, I have not repaired every bit of damage on the exterior sheet metal. I still want it to show signs of field use. I’ve straightened the large rear guards and cut out the corroded bits of metal and spliced in new sections. There are a few bullet holes in the guards and there are some signs of field repairs such as welded splits in the steel, which I have just tidied up a bit rather than removing the old repair.

I have cut out and patched most of the corrosion holes in the fuel cell enclosure. There was a lot more corrosion in there than I thought and I’ll probably see a bit more coming through once the enclosure has been blasted. I probably should have got it blasted first, but...... The enclosure is just there to hold the new stainless steel tank I will build anyway, so I am focussed mainly on having it structurally sound while looking original and being relatively tidy.

The panels on the transfer case protective shield are now straight and ready for painting. I’ve also tidied up the front inner and outer guards and replaced any obvious rotten material in them. They are pretty tidy, albeit fairly well-used.

I’ve also been doing some work in tidying up the rear junction box and conduit. These are starting to look a little better now. I am still after one of the male threaded sections that fit to the junction box to complete mine, if anyone has any spares.

I’ve got the generator apart now and it looks reasonably good inside. I broke the pulley wheel in the process which brassed me off, but I took some consolation in the fact that it had already been repaired in one place and it had damage in another place, which was where it broke. I will find a specialist welder and see if it can be repaired.

Now that I have the generator apart, the field coils and armature look to be in good shape. I have stripped it all out now and have already cleaned up the case and internal pieces. I will tidy up what I can and go as far as I can go with my limited expertise, before bundling everything together and taking it and the voltage regulator to the auto electrician to see if it is going to work.
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by seacon » Sun Dec 10, 2017 6:45 am

Looks good and it will look perfect with some paint on!
Excellent work!
m


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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by Big D » Sun Dec 10, 2017 2:20 pm

Hello Seacon,

Thanks for your kind words. I hope to have some photos through soon.
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by Big D » Tue Dec 19, 2017 12:33 am

Hi all,

There has still been no progress on the blasting and painting of the hull, which is a bit of a bugger as it is holding me up now. However, it has given me some time to progress some other parts of the restoration.

I’ve done a bit more work on the generator. Things were progressing nicely until I realised that the repair kit I had was for the Ford generator and not the Autolite generator I have. I am on the lookout for the correct kit now....

After a light brush down, the field coils look too be in good shape. They appear fine electrically but will let the auto electrician confirm that when I get it all to him. The armature and commutator also look fine at this stage. Apart from one new bearing which I need to fit, the enclosure and end caps are ready for the reassembly.

I still need to rebuild the ceramic plate that insulates the posts from the enclosure and find another stud to replace the broken post. I also need to confirm what exactly is in the breakerbox that is attached to the side of the generator. Does anyone have any photos of the inside of this? I have a circuit breaker and a thick short cable but that is it.

I started work on the FT-237 radio mount and the radio and interphone bits and pieces. The plan is to get all this working before it goes into the hull. I understand the radio mount should be unpainted and just retain its original zinc finish but the steel on mine was pretty corroded and rough in places though so I after I removed the remaining paint and cleaned everything up, I painted the metalwork a zinc colour. I don’t think it looks too bad.

A couple of the toggle clamps were a bit bent but I heated them and straightened them and they are pretty good now. Two of the wee springs that go on the clamps are broken so I am on the lookout for replacements.

The wiring on the mount actually looks reasonably good so I will just test it and confirm. I have some assembly instructions for the wiring of the interphones coming from a supplier in France. The TM manuals don’t show the colour coding for the interphone connections to the terminal block on the FT-237 and the old wiring was too far gone to work out the colours. I have cleaned up the terminal board and will reattach that now pending the connection of the cabling and testing.

Still to do is tidying up of the data plates and the two posts on the left of the mount. I painted the brass plates black and will scratch away the paint on the embossed lettering.

That’s it for today....
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by vj » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:42 pm

Darryl, wow all looks great, hope you can remember where all them parts goes back, I sure could not.Your engine looks like my m2 hst, but its a wxlc3 Hercules, 404 cid. I done rebuild it and let it run some.The radio in the m8 look the same as the halftrack, My nephew got a real nice set in his halftrack.We worked on a m20 but the hyd cylinder for throttle was bad , elsewise it was cranking and running great. Thanks for all the pictures, wendell :D
I have got four running halftracks,plus 5 ton ww2 semi-truck,1943 willys jeep and other ww2 vehicles,plus a lot of parts to trade on. Wendell in Tn.

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by Big D » Fri Jan 05, 2018 4:59 pm

Hi Wendell,

Thanks for that. I must admit, I’ve looked at all those nuts and bolts on the odd occasion and cringed a bit. Haha. I think though that after all this is done, I will know an M8 like the back of my hand!

I have made good progress on the radios and am typing up an update which I will post shortly.
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by Big D » Fri Jan 05, 2018 5:54 pm

Hi all,

This update on the M8 has a bit of a different flavour to the previous stuff but the work I’ve been doing over the last couple of weeks has been a nice change to cleaning, fabricating and painting.

I’ve now made some progress on the radio setup for the M8. After some tidying up of the old wiring, I have the FT-237 tray working. The antenna post still needs replacing and I’ll do this before the tray is finally fitted. I had a BC-604 transmitter and two BC-603 receivers for the radio setup. I needed the BC-604 going for the interphone system in the M8 to work, so I was keen to see if that could be done.

I had two NOS DM-34D dynamotors for the BC-603 radios but before fitting to the receivers, I took the bearing end caps off and put some new grease in there. The old grease was a little thick and might have been okay, but putting some new stuff in was good insurance. When I tested the dynamotors, one worked straight away, while the other one didn’t, bugger it. After some time learning about how they work and fiddling around with it, I found that there appeared to be insufficient gap between the segments on the commutator. I had to scrape the gaps to get the excess of copper out of there. There is a little bit of arcing off the brushes now but the dynamotor is working and hopefully the brushes will settle in. They are quite a neat little device. For anyone else servicing these, I found that when they are working properly, they draw about 1.8 amps with no load.

I have both BC-603 receivers working now. These are French units but they will do until when/if I pick up some original U.S ones. Both had lamps and fuses that needed replacing, and one had an audio problem. After I fitted the new fuses and lamps, and fiddled with the audio tubes on the second unit, both are functioning now.

The BC-604 has been a bit of a challenge so far. In another life, I trained as a radio/TV serviceperson but that was post valve technology and 35 years later I had forgotten all my training. Some of it came back once I started looking at the circuit diagrams, but I had to enlist the help of Radtech and others on the G503 radio forum to get me in the right direction. If you want to read 3 pages of fault finding on this, it is here viewtopic.php?f=36&t=293351 , otherwise this is a summary of what I did.

I had a used DM-35D 12 volt dynamotor to go with the BC-604. I didn’t know anything about its history but it was the only one I’d seen for sale at the time, so I grabbed it. I put some new grease on the bearings on this before firing it up. The dynamotor fired up initially off a power supply so I fitted it in the set. When fitted in the set though, the dynamotor relay just kept chattering away and the dynamotor wouldn’t start at all. I also couldn’t see any signs of life in the BC-604 itself. With some assistance from Radtech I ran all sorts of tests on the BC-604 but kept coming back to the dynamotor as being part of the problem, so I pulled it out of the set and completely stripped it. I ran all the resistance checks - 180 degree - segment to segment - then segment to armature - all measured fine. The brushes also measured fine and the surface of the commutator at each end looked good. I put it back together and then cleaned out the bearings again, re-greased them and experimented with varying preload on the bearings. The armature seemed to rotate freely, and I figured I was good to go.

I tried another 12 volt source. Again, about a half turn rotation on the dynamotor and the leads to the battery warmed up very fast. The dynamotor was initially drawing over 12 amps (more than my ammeter would go up to) and it just seemed like it was a big short circuit. I had another look at the circuit diagram and I noticed that there was no capacitor across the Low Voltage ends of the dynamotor, unlike the circuit diagram. I wondered if it had been removed at some point and whether that capacitor was supposed to assist as a start-up device. I fitted a capacitor from one of the dynamotors from the BC-603’s, tested the DM-35 dynamotor and away it went.

I fitted the dynamotor back into the BC-604 and although the dynamotor ran, the set still wasn’t doing anything and keying the microphone didn’t start the dynamotor like it should have. I removed the dynamotor again and gave it another going over but could not see any reason why it shouldn’t do what it was supposed to do. I put it back in the BC-604 and made up another set of cables for connecting to the set. These were beefier than the ones I used before and I figured it couldn’t hurt. First test and as soon as I hit the Operate button, the dynamotor fired up as it should. No delay in the dynamotor relay; a nice clean start. A couple of further tests proved I wasn’t dreaming. At that point I noticed that the power amplifier tube in the set was lit. That was a first.

I tried keying the microphone and initially had no success. I checked everything and worked out that I had a dodgy wire in the microphone lead which was causing intermittent connections. A repair later and the microphone keying now starts the dynamotor. Apparently these dynamotors should run without the capacitor (a late war change) so I went back to the dynamotor and removed the capacitor. Success. The dynamotor starts now without the capacitor and even the tuning meter on the set is now working.

I’m not sure if the power supply was part of the problem all along, but I had felt that the battery I had been using was getting a bit tired toward the end of my hours of testing and that couldn't have helped. The cable change definitely made a difference. Looking at the dynamotor, it does say 18 amps on the side so maybe it was just too much for the cables I was using. Either way, a few lessons learnt and it is progress.

The next step is to check the interphone and see if it works. I hadn’t really planned on fixing the transmitter itself that but I guess I’ve come this far so I may persevere with that. After that, I’ll tidy up the old paint and freshen the sets up a bit.
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by Tapper02 » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:17 am

Excellent work Darryl. Luckily I had good dynamoters and my BC-603s and BC-604 worked from the start. I don't know if I would have been as persistent as you in troubleshooting. I followed your other thread, although I think at times I was thoroughly confused. It goes to show you how valuable the information sharing on this forum can be. Congrats, and once again, great work!

-Tom
http://506thrps.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1944 AUTOCAR M15A1 (M16A1) HALF-TRACK:
(Being restored to an M3A1 configuration)
SERIAL NUMBER M-15 A 1, 1356
MODEL M-16 A 1, ORD. SERIAL NUMBER 1106

MVPA # 30507

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by Big D » Sat Jan 06, 2018 12:34 am

Hi Tom,

Thanks for that. As you say, a great way to share information on here and the ability to post photos which stay there as a permanent resource makes the forum a real asset for anyone facing similar problems.

I have to admit that I was a bit confused myself at times when I was going through all the troubleshooting. I am well out of touch with that stuff and it’s great when you have folks like Radtech who have a wealth of knowledge and can keep you pointed in the right direction.

I actually picked up a NOS BC-605 as a bit of insurance during the process of fault finding. I figured it might come in handy for the interphone system if the worst happens and I don’t get the interphone working in the BC-604. I am trying to remain confident though! Haha.
Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by Big D » Wed Jan 17, 2018 7:11 pm

Hi all,

I have had some limited success with the interphone system in the BC-604 transmitter. I had to do some more fault-finding and with the assistance of Radtech on the radio forum I worked out that one of the vacuum tubes in the set was faulty. I replaced this and the audio stages in the set started to work.

The BC-604 mounted in the FT-237 does allow you to test sidetone, which is a test on the interphone circuit. The BC-604 now works but it has a wee problem which I may or may not be able to resolve in the short term. I am told that in the Interphone mode, the dynamotor in the BC-604 should run continuously (can anyone confirm this?). This makes sense as the dynamotor powers up the audio stages in the set which are required for the interphone audio to operate.

On my set however, I seem to have an intermittent problem which is likely to be caused by the S104 radio/interphone relay. I had the BC-604 in the FT-237 radio tray and for a short time the dynamotor was running continuously in the interphone position (which I’m told is correct). However, then the dynamotor stopped running continuously and now it won’t run in interphone mode unless I key the microphone. I figure that one of the contacts in the radio/interphone relay is the cause of the problem but there seems to be no easy way to get at the contacts to clean them. It is a complicated relay with lots of connections and I don’t really fancy the idea of trying to replace it, even if I could source a replacement!

As it stands, when using the interphone, one has to key the microphone and pause for a second or two before talking to allow the dynamotor to fire up the audio. At this stage, I’ve found the audio is a bit noisy and there is some dynamotor whine in the audio so I intend replacing the capacitors on the dynamotor to see if that helps. I have also ordered some replacement vacuum tubes for the audio stages, just in case one of the existing ones is not quite right. Not an ideal situation, but when it does work, it does work! If I’m not happy with the performance, I do have a NOS BC-605 that I could fit instead of one of the BC-603’s and this will provide interphone capability.

I have tidied up the BC-604 and the two BC-603’s. I didn’t do a complete strip down and paint of all the panels on the sets. There was just too much involved in removing all the control panels and besides, the appearance of these was not too bad as it was, and I may replace the French sets with US ones at some point anyway. The new paint on the exterior panels has freshened up the appearance of the three sets though.

I am still having some issues with the DM-34D dynamotor that I needed to work on to get it to run and I am ready to admit defeat on this one. More often than not it won’t start. The resistance measurements I’ve done on it suggest that there are some open windings on the armature, so I will keep an eye out for a replacement. If anyone has a good spare they want to part with, I’d be interested.

In the meantime, a few other bits and pieces have arrived in the post (thanks to Brent and Jean-Marc).

Next week I hope to have some progress photos on the hull sandblasting.
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Darryl Lennane
NZ

1943 Willys MB
1941 LP2A MG Carrier
1943 White M3A1 AOP
1942 Willys MBT
1944 Ford M8 Armoured Car

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Re: Restoration of Ford M8 armoured car U.S Ordnance number 7373

Post by DaninNM » Thu Jan 18, 2018 10:37 am

I HAVE THE REAR PART OF THE m23a1 telescope mount but I need the front part that mounts the front of the telescope.....got a spare of the front part for sale???? or can you show me some pictures so I can make something to hold my telescope????
series fo pictures would be very helpful.....use my private email - larger picture sizes make for better scaling up for machine drawings. Thanks.
BTW I have the spring sets for the M8 armored car seat and will weld them together and make sets shortly....this is the spring that lets the seat fold up and down.....mine was rusted away, lots are broken.....these are repros and relatively inexpensive.....had them made in two parts - hence need to weld them together...
reenacting and WWII history

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