USS IOWA

[AROOGA]

Dave,
The USS IOWA and the other BB's defined the meaning of Capital Ships. As you said, there would be 4 to visit if it came on-line in that role. Too many to visit? One in Hawaii 3K miles from the West Coast, 2 on the East Coast. Do you see people from the Great Divide to the West Coast taking 3K+ trips to see a BB? A couple maybe. Forgive me and God Bless the USS Cabot, but what the heck was it compared to a BB? It hasn't much name recognition among the military and let alone among the non-military. If it can't survive some kind of West Coast financial $upport, maybe the the City of Vail, CO can buy a gun turret to use for avalanche knock-downs on their ski slopes when it's scraped. The Stoops in the Bay Area suffer from Cerebral Constipation when they provide re-zoning, new roads and tax relief for some new business to come in, yet will whine about historically great ships falling behind on taxes! What about the visitors who spend bucks in their area?
Semper Fi,
T.

[Glenn]

We can't save all of them is true, but the significance is in the fact they are the last ones, never will be more, not just some of them. It would be a good make work project, providing a home for IOWA. A good place for stimulus money to go.

[David M. Carpenter]

T:

USS Cabot was the last US CVL. We had loaned her to the Spanish, who returned her to us for preservation. She was eventually scrapped after some really nasty politics/egos.

My earlier point, which may have not been clear, is that museum ships run on money, lots of money. USS Hornet CV/CVA/CVS-12 is in the same area, and is going belly up. Perhaps a BB might survive on the West Coast, As there are no other BB's immediately available, but it will not survive on sentiment. To the average tourist, a ship is a ship is a ship, and with the numbers of museum ships currently in the Bay Area, one more is not only less likely to survive, but may well also take others down with her.

I have been involved with two museum ships for about a decade and a half, and the realities are a little bit scary. Saying 'save it' is easy, but paying for day to day upkeep is the real bear. Taking on another ship in today's economy would be difficult at best. The stand-alone museums in close proximity fight each other for the tourist dollar, and the 'fleet' museums, such as Patriot's Point in Charleston cannot charge enough per head for admission to support what they have. So far as local government support goes, the 'it brings tourists' argument doesn't really fly. Ships rarely bring people into an area in and of themselves. Sure, there are those few who are into ships, and the odd reunion, but those numbers are not terribly significant in the big picture. The ship draws money from people who would be in the area in any event, so there is not really a net gain of tourist dollars.

Also, I am not taking the negative position simply because it is on the other side of the country from me. I was not the least bit supportive when the idea was floated to bring USS Kitty Hawk to Wilmington, NC, and the reasons for that were the same as I outlined above, although BB-55 is not in financial trouble, another ship might have (and likely would have) dragged both down. It all comes back to the dollar, sadly.

Dave

[David M. Carpenter]

Glenn:

USS Texas LaPorte, TX
USS Alabama Mobile, AL
USS North Carolina Wilmington, NC
USS Wisconsin (with USS Kentucky's bow) Norfolk, VA
USS New Jersey Camden, NJ
USS Massachusetts Fall River, MA
USS Missouri Pearl Harbor, HI

Apart from USS Washington, USS South Dakota, USS Indiana and USS Iowa, all of the fast battleships have been turned into museum ships. Perhaps the lack of BB's on the West Coast might help Iowa to make a go of it, but as I noted above, to the average tourist one ship is the same as another.

Dave

[oifvet23]

Dave,
You have some good points, but I still feel Iowa must be saved. I also agree the bay area isnt the place for her but California is a big state, surley she could go somewhere else.

[tractor12]

Last I heard the Hornet was doing good. A few years ago they couldn't pay the power because the person in charge of her would rather buy aircraft and other items then put the money towards bills. After they got rid of him they paid them off and are still buying aircraft

[oifvet23]

I talked to a guy who works for the New Jersey and I asked if they had problems financially and he said they were doing just fine, not as well as they would like but considering the current conditions with our economy they are in the green. Not sure if I mentioned it before but for those who care to know, I work for Intrepid, but Im sure I dont have to tell you how we are doing, 120 million dollar overhaul we are doing OK

[Andrew OBryan]

thats where the Iowa needs to go NJ

[Bob OB]

Note;USS Nautilus,our first nuke submarine has been on display for many years at the Groton Sub Base in Groton Ct. Bob

[oifvet23]

Still no word?

[oifvet23]

I wonder how long they will keep her on donation hold? Mare Island aint looking too good and the pacific square people cant seem to find the funding.

[David M. Carpenter]

I don't know, but as the scrapping of large, conventional warships in this country has become such an interesting exercise, I doubt that she is threatened with the breakers anytime soon.

In an unrelated aside, we had a Battleship Alive event last weekend. I found out that Chris Nardi was down from USS Massachusetts, and somehow I missed running into him all day. By all accounts, Chris is El Supreamo 'good people'.

Dave

[dilvoy]

I just passed by the Mothball Fleet at Suisuin Bay and the Iowa has been moved towards the East, probably two rows of ships towards the East. I told a friend this and he said that this may have happened to allow for the removal of some ships that are in poor condition. The first two of the ships that will be scrapped will be towed to SF and be scrapped there, because their hulls are so week that they supposedly can't be towed at sea. They are Liberty ships. I don't know what other typs of ships may be removed from the fleet. Is there any more info on the disposition of the Iowa?

[dilvoy]

I just passed by the Mothball fleet again and the Iowa was moved just one row of ships to the east. It's a good position and the ship can still be seen when traveling north on Highway 680 across the Benicia Bridge. It is in the third row of ships when looking east from the bridge and it is on the far right. It is easy to miss, because it is a low ship compared to the cargo ships and tankers, but it is wide. The curve of the stern is very noticable even while driving and peeking towards the right to get a glimpse.

[C.J. Bertagna]

The only warship tied-up at Mare Island at present is the Royal Thai Navy's Nakha 751. The ship was the USS LCS(L)102(Landing Craft Support Ship) during the war and saw action at Okinawa. It's the gunboat version of the LCI. After the war we gave her to Japan and much later they gave her to Thailand. If you go to the website 'mightymidgets.org' you can view her pictures. Mare Island is such a historic site I'd like to see a Navy Maritime Museum established there(It never should have been closed in the first place). In addition to the LCS, the Iowa, Jeremiah O'Brien, Hornet and the Pampanito should all be moved there. Access to Mare Island is very convenient off of I-80 and frankly I don't think the ' boys ' in SF would miss them that much. Marine World and the Wine Country probably draw as many tourists as SF does anyway.