An Interesting Barn Find

[Dave K.]

Love'em or hate'em a 10K original mile 1973 VW Thing . . . . zero rust, original tires, top, side curtains, runs like a top (whatever that means) and perfect interior!

[wreckless]

The way they like to rot that is an amazing find!

[p3ferris]

Nice looking Thing

[tamnalan]

Pretty nice!

I'll bet there's a group of folks who are into those just like we are into jeeps.

[SB5477]

I'll bet there's a group of folks who are into those just like we are into jeeps.

Even more, some people would pick up dog poop and take it home if it was German. I have a customer who regularly goes to Germany (sometimes Switzerland) to get his engines built. Ripped off every time, I have to correct lots of amateur mistakes done by the "germanengineer" . But guess what, he always goes back for more. Afraid to complain and with cap in hand he is happily paying two-three times as much as here. For some people it is enough if something is German. You can't convince them, it is similar to religion. Something they beleive in.

[pj128]

Give me made in the USA any day Jeeps, Mustangs, Harley, Winchester, colt, Smith and Wesson, Proto Stanley etc

[Derek Eddlestone]

For some people it is enough if something is German. You can't convince them, it is similar to religion. Something they beleive in.

Just to pick five German car makers at random, can you deny that these aren't either the best or amongst the best that money can buy? I have a Porsche which is expensive to service because I only use a main dealer, and a VW that I take to a specialist that is as good but slightly cheaper than a main dealer. Both are well engineered, reliable and a pleasure to drive.
German engineering has been highly regarded for a hundred years with examples from more troubled times like the Luger pistol which was so precise that it was often discarded on the battlefield because a tiny amount of dirt had clogged it's mechanism. The MG42 machine gun which the USA copied and called it the M60, the V2 rocket which today is called the SCUD amongst many examples.
I'm trying really hard to be even- handed and think of a German product which I wouldn't touch but I just can't think of one. I I will agree that prices are higher than average but I've always believed that you get what you pay for and finally I must ask why the roads of the world are clogged with German cars?

Derek.

[SB5477]

Hi Derek,
I think there is no point in arguing about this question. But, VW is it really above anything else? The old Beattle, noisy, no luggage space, no windows, high consumption for the size, slow, sidewind blows it into the ditch. Reliable? Well, it has problems like other cars. New Passats were lining up at the dealer couple of years ago waiting for their new FSI engines replaced, another cockup. Porsche, the old air cooled engines you better update them if you do not need collapsed timing chain tensioners, oil leak and smoke is a problem right from new, you as a Porsche guy must know about these things as well as the water cooled 944 and 928 problems. Or the new Cayman I had one in my shop recently, engine blown on the road. BMW and Mercedes had HUGE problems with cylinder plating coming off on their V8 engines. Nobody is talking about this. One of my friends against advice of other poor guys who learned their lesson already bought a M-B with a Supercharged engine brand new with 13 kilometers(8 miles) He was happy but not for long on the same afternoon transmission failed. There is nothing special about this it could happen on cars made in other countries as well, but if I have to pay twice as much for something just because it is German, plus endure the hype about their commercials and other baseless propaganda, like German engineering, Qualitat Überprufung etc. than I am just not going to accept problems like these from the "Best in the World". If an American, Italian, French, Japanese car fail, or rust it is a piece of scrap or junk, if a German does than they say the machine has a problem. Lately cars like Opels, M-Bs VWs have lots of poblems and people say the Turks, Czecks or the Poles assembling them and they screwed it up. Of course, a German can't make a mistake. Few years ago working in another country we used a machine shop owned by a German guy. He was a nice guy but to admit a mistake? No way! Never! If he had made a mistake the only way to find out was, he did not charged for correcting it. Asked him, Heinz when you were a little kid in Germany they did not teach you to say Schuldigung Bitte? Naturally he was not happy when asked him that. I have nothing against the Germans I like them in general, have lots of German friends, but I am not going to accept that they are better than anybody. If we are talking about cars or engineering in general a Dutch, British, Pakistani, US or Japanese engineer is certainly not inferior to them. I am in business contact with people mostly in UK, US rarely in Germany. It is easier to deal with them and you do not have the feeling that they think you are stupid. Yes, they have a strange attitude. About Lugers, V2, Zeiss, Mauser and many other things were one of the best in the world, but not today. Todays Germany is not the same as it was even 30 or 40 years ago. They are in to high profit, low cost(to them, not to you) production. If you like to buy German no problem, buy it, I may buy it also, but not because it is German, only if it is good enough.

[horrocks]

I run a 2002 VW Golf Diesel 150bhp PD. They have a terrible reputation for having camshafts made of chocolate. When they go (and they almost always do, however careful you are about changing the oil) the repair cost is around £1000. I understand there are problems with the newer 2ltr common rail diesel too.

Fun to drive though.

[Derek Eddlestone]

I run a 2002 VW Golf Diesel 150bhp PD. They have a terrible reputation for having camshafts made of chocolate. When they go (and they almost always do, however careful you are about changing the oil) the repair cost is around £1000. I understand there are problems with the newer 2ltr common rail diesel too.

Fun to drive though.

I have a petrol Golf GTi that I absolutely thrash the nuts off and It's as good as gold. One thing I never skimp on is the service schedule which I religiously stick to with all of my cars and if you bought my Cayman S, you'd find it has had the 40K service but only has 13K on the clock. No-one builds 100% reliable vehicles but if you were offered a BMW or a Rover 75, which would you buy? Of course we shouldn't forget that the Rover 75 was built by BMW as is the other timeless British classic, the Mini. Historic vehicles are another ball game and we shouldn't use the WW11 jeep to judge the American car industry by.

Derek.

[tamnalan]

Well, give the German engineers credit for the Beetle - a close relative of the Thing.

Wikipedia reports that the basic Beetle (rear, air cooled engine version) was produced in volume from around 1945 until 2003 (final production in Mexico). That's almost 60 years! That's some very successful engineering for a design to remain economic that long. No over car (including our jeeps) have even come close to that.

I owned a '64 Beetle for about 8 years when I last lived in Montana. With oversized rear tires and chains it would go pretty much everywhere my dad's CJ-3A could go.

[p3ferris]

Again, the Thing was a vehicle that rusted easily but a sought after vehicle by many people. As far as vehicles around the world"they are man made, this and that will break down no matter how well engineered. This post is not about that. It is a well preserved looking vehicle.

[SB5477]

Wikipedia reports that the basic Beetle (rear, air cooled engine version) was produced in volume from around 1945 until 2003 (final production in Mexico). That's almost 60 years! That's some very successful engineering for a design to remain economic that long. No over car (including our jeeps) have even come close to that.

How long stays something in production has not much to do with engineering. For example some East German cars were produced for a long time and in large numbers. Would be owners were dreaming about them for 8 or 10 years before receiving them. I always tried to find that extra in those cars (Beetle) when repairing or driving them. Never did. I have no idea what is so great about them, but people are different, some like it. About making and selling them, a car with the features the Beetle had, only the Germans could sell that car to the world for that long. A lot better cars diappeared looong time ago, people don't even remember them. One of the guys had M-B 240 Diesel, we were going to a race, put the luggage in the trunk it ended up on the ground, fell thru, because of rust. He said, Oh its a 1974 what do you expect, but when he saw two small rust spot on an even older Lancia he called it a rusty Italian junk. Seen some Beetle drivers in Canada at -40 in Russian style fur hat scraping the windshield on the inside!

[GI.]

SB5477,
What do you mean about the old bettle not having enough luggages space ?...I have never had a problem with mine .

[Derek Eddlestone]

Wikipedia reports that the basic Beetle (rear, air cooled engine version) was produced in volume from around 1945 until 2003 (final production in Mexico). That's almost 60 years! That's some very successful engineering for a design to remain economic that long. No over car (including our jeeps) have even come close to that.

How long stays something in production has not much to do with engineering. For example some East German cars were produced for a long time and in large numbers. Would be owners were dreaming about them for 8 or 10 years before receiving them. I always tried to find that extra in those cars (Beetle) when repairing or driving them. Never did. I have no idea what is so great about them, but people are different, some like it. About making and selling them, a car with the features the Beetle had, only the Germans could sell that car to the world for that long. A lot better cars diappeared looong time ago, people don't even remember them. One of the guys had M-B 240 Diesel, we were going to a race, put the luggage in the trunk it ended up on the ground, fell thru, because of rust. He said, Oh its a 1974 what do you expect, but when he saw two small rust spot on an even older Lancia he called it a rusty Italian junk. Seen some Beetle drivers in Canada at -40 in Russian style fur hat scraping the windshield on the inside!

I haven't been to Hungary but assumed that as the removal of the wall had allowed freer access to the west, the cars on the roads would have been more 21st century instead of the previous one. Lots of manufacturers let rubbish cars roll off the lines thirty years ago but times have changed with cars now having warranty periods up to ten years on bodywork as treatments for metal have come on in leaps and bounds. I agree with your sentiments about older cars but I'm looking at what I buy new as opposed to what I'd buy as a restoration project.

Derek.