12 bolt wheel assembly with aligning washers

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dunsbr
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12 bolt wheel assembly with aligning washers

Post by dunsbr » Sat Apr 14, 2007 4:22 am

Guys,

I've been pulling apart and reassembling wheels after my 4x4 trip last weekend
and have been using those wheel half centring washers for the first time.

I'd have to say that they do seem to make the wheel halves align better.
When I put the first one on it didn't sit flush until I ran the nut down tight.
The second one sat a little better but still didn't dropeasily into the hole.
By the time that the second one was tightened up, the third one droppoed straight in flush as the stud was sitting central in the hole,
as were all the other studs around the wheel.

I don't know if this will make a difference to how the wheel balances etc..
But Iit should give it the best chance of being symmetrical.

Cheers
Brad Dunstan
RHD '87 M1026
(with 4L80E Trans, 242 T/case, 12K hubs, CTIS, A2 wiring, Air Con, A2 ebrake, 9k Winch,
Serpentine Belt Accessory Drive & Eaton e-lockers)


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12 bolt wheel assemglys with aligning washers

Post by dilvoy » Sat Apr 14, 2007 8:54 am

You can bet your last dollar it will make a difference and you just prooved that only two of those washeres are needed.
George D. Paxinos

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Post by dunsbr » Sat Apr 14, 2007 1:29 pm

Yes, I thought that George.
But I stand by the 3 points defining a plane theory and will continue to use 3.

Cheers
Brad Dunstan
RHD '87 M1026
(with 4L80E Trans, 242 T/case, 12K hubs, CTIS, A2 wiring, Air Con, A2 ebrake, 9k Winch,
Serpentine Belt Accessory Drive & Eaton e-lockers)

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Post by Ozhumvee » Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:12 pm

I've been fitting them gradually as I have to pull a wheel apart for any reason and they have all been fitted for about 3 or 4 months now and do seem to make a difference to the smoothness of the truck on the highway.
Peter James
Sydney, Australia
RHD 1988 M1026
4speed, Aircon and CTIS!
Unfortunately has been sold!

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12 bolt wheel with alignment washers

Post by dilvoy » Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:39 pm

Brad, Is that one of Archimedes's theories?
George D. Paxinos

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Post by Ozhumvee » Sat Apr 14, 2007 2:42 pm

Hey George he would still be asleep, it's 8.40am on a sunday morning here ;-))
Peter
Peter James
Sydney, Australia
RHD 1988 M1026
4speed, Aircon and CTIS!
Unfortunately has been sold!

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Post by dunsbr » Sat Apr 14, 2007 3:22 pm

HA!
If you check my ealier post you'll see I was on line at 7.30! :D
I've been outside pulling the runflats out of the old tyres this morning.

George, not everything was invented by the Greeks! :D

It's a normal mathematcal law,
one point gives you a point (1 dimension),
two points define a line (2 dimensions),
three points define a plane(3 dimensions).
Any more points just give you more detail on the plane.

Cheers
Brad Dunstan
RHD '87 M1026
(with 4L80E Trans, 242 T/case, 12K hubs, CTIS, A2 wiring, Air Con, A2 ebrake, 9k Winch,
Serpentine Belt Accessory Drive & Eaton e-lockers)

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12 bolt wheel assembly with aligning washers

Post by dilvoy » Sun Apr 15, 2007 10:12 am

"Three points define a plane"
Image


Brad, That sounds like Geometry to me, which just happens to be a word made up of two Greek words, earth and measurement. :roll:

Unfortunatly those washers are not designed to keep both wheel halves on the same plane. The twelve bolts and nuts joining a clean, straight wheel with a properly placed seal do that. The alignment washers are designed to more precisely mate the wheel halves to avoid excentricity of the inner half in relation to the hub centric mounted outer half. Now if the wheel material that we are dealing was not such a thick amount of steel like for example, wood, I could see the need for more of those washers, but I just can't see the steel of those washers being squeezeed out from inbetween the stud, hole and the properly tightened nut. Now if soft pnumatic tires were changed to solid tires of some sort, I could see how there could be more shock to those little washers. Have I missed something?
George D. Paxinos

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Post by Action » Sun Apr 15, 2007 3:03 pm

dunsbr wrote:HA!


It's a normal mathematcal law,
one point gives you a point (1 dimension),
two points define a line (2 dimensions),
three points define a plane(3 dimensions).
Any more points just give you more detail on the plane.

Cheers
Hey Brad,
You stated a plane is 3 dimensional. Is it? I thought a plane was flat thus making it 2D. lol.

Do those washers squeeze so flat as to not keep the halves apart?

Jason

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Post by dunsbr » Sun Apr 15, 2007 5:35 pm

Hmmmm, good point George & Jason.
A Euclidean flat plane (BTW, yes he is a Greek) is indeed 2 dimensional. :D

The washers don't squeeze flat., all they do is drop into the stud hole in the outer half thereby effectively reducing the diameter of the hole and ensuring that the stud is central in the hole.
This ensures that the wheel halves are not eccentric.
(Assuming that the tooling for the wheel haves is not eccentric... :roll: )

Cheers
Brad Dunstan
RHD '87 M1026
(with 4L80E Trans, 242 T/case, 12K hubs, CTIS, A2 wiring, Air Con, A2 ebrake, 9k Winch,
Serpentine Belt Accessory Drive & Eaton e-lockers)

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Post by almonster » Mon Apr 16, 2007 8:28 am

The reason for 3 is that it evens out the weight distribution on the wheel. Yes, those giant 37" tires are already horribly out of balance, but hey why make it worst with only 2 on one end and none on the other?

I just redid my wheel last weekend and I did notice that not all the alignment washers are created equal. They all look the same, but definately fit differently per lug. First one - tough to push in. 2nd - not as tough and by the 3rd - slips on. I think the 3rd one is just to make sure that the outer wheel is finally aligned correctly by the other 2.

A plane wasn't created by the Greeks - it was the Chinese. ;)

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12 bolt wheel assembly with aligning washers

Post by dilvoy » Mon Apr 16, 2007 10:13 am

Hi Al. Actually an even balance of washers can be acheived by using 2,3,4,6 and 12 washers. These washers are not a perfect solution to is wheel alignment situation, a precision mating of the two wheel halves would be better, but that's expensive. These washers take out most of the slop in the wheel setup in a very economical way, so that's what was done. Did you find that where one of your washers was tight another was loose in that position? If so that was a variance in the washers, if your technique of washer handling was consistant. There is a possibility that you were noticing that some of the studs are not pressed in place in a perfect right angle to the wheel face or that the wheel halves were not yet positioned optimally.
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Post by Action » Mon Apr 16, 2007 12:37 pm

Didn'y Orville and Wilbur Wright make the plane?

So, does the wide portion of the washer go between the wheel halves, or between the wheel and lug nut?

Jason

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Post by almonster » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:05 pm

Jason, the washers fit ontop of the outer wheel half under the locking nut.

George, I think you are right. The variance decreased after the 2nd one. I also agree that the lugs may not be 100% 90degrees since some may have been human pressed lugs.

Speaking of which, I have an older wheel back half that doesn't have any of the 12 studs in place. I have the studs and is it safe to just "hammer" them in? The old wheel half already had them in at one time but are no longer there. Is it safe to do? And if so, how many times can this be done?

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Post by Gadget » Mon Apr 16, 2007 1:12 pm

OK before I go crazy can somebody post a picture of the washers and how and where they go?
I have pulled quite a few wheels apart and put them back together and I have not seen them.


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