MVCC Elections

[13th Armored]

Since I have received the newsletter and the ballot in the mail as of today (11 June 2011) I have a few observations.

First, the Postmark date is 8 June 2011 and I do not see an actual printing date.
The postmark date is therefore the publication date.

Second, the ballot is self addressed to the home address of a person who is a candidate in the election.
Would it not be more secure, using a PO Box for the ballots only and it could not be opened until the close of the election and only by the entire Election Committee?

Third, there is a number on the ballot.
Is the Election Committee tracking the number as issued to a named member?

Fourth, there is a ballot return date of 18 June 2011.
According to the By-Laws of the MVCC,
Article 3, Section 3.10 states and I quote:
“Notice of Regular Elections: Notice of elections shall be by publication in the newsletter not less than (30) days prior to the election for all members in good standing at the time of the notice. Notice shall include the subject matter of the election.”

I believe that the number of days from publication to ballot due date is only 10 days. In order to be in compliance with the By-Laws the ballots should be due to the Election Committee no sooner than 8 July 2011.

This is a bit of a problem!

[199th MP]

some of these same thoughts occurred to me as i read my newsletter this morning, especially the part about the ballots being numbered--it would be fairly easy to tie the votes to the voters if anyone were so inclined. since i am a brand new member, voting for the first time, i'm curious to know if it has always been done this way?

[Kurt Lesser]

Gentlemen,

The ballots were numbered to be sure there were no copied ballots returned. They were shuffled before being added to the newsletters so there would be no way to correlate ballots to mailing label addresses.

Dave, You are correct that there is a very short period between when the ballots were mailed out and the time they need to be returned. I'm sure you understand the reasons for the delayed mailing without going into it here. Due to those circumstances we were trying to compensate for being a month late in getting them out. If people receive them and act right away voting and returning them we can get them counted and the results announced in the July newsletter. This would help put us back on track. Hopefully it will prevent people from setting the ballot aside to get to "later on".

To the best of my knowledge there never has been a "printed date" on the newsletters. The editors did their best to make sure that articles were submitted by the 15th of the month and the copy got to the printer so that the post office would be delivering then around the first of the month.

If you would like to be a part of the election committee that opens and counts the votes I'm sure we can arrange that. There will only be 3 people involved when that is done to verify the ballots have not been duplicated or tampered with and that the count is accurate.

[13th Armored]

You still need to follow the By-Laws of the MVCC in the election process. If the maker of the ballots did not follow the By-Laws then you need to address that.

People need to be given the chance to ponder and debate with their peers! Maybe even be able to conduct a write-in campaign!

As far as the address that the ballots are sent to, it would be to easy to use the numbers, or the zip code on the postmark, etc. to scratch out ballots. Are all the committee members present when the mail arrives each day? Surely you can see the flaw in the process.

My being a part of the committee does not help this situation as I can not be there every day.

You have said that this is an important election for the MVCC, don't you think that means VERY strict adherence to the rules and laws?

The date as I have said is the postmark date because there is no printing date on the newsletter as you have confirmed.

I think that there is a problem!

[softskin_driver]

Dave what does the Date the newsletter was printed or even created have to do with the date it was mailed? what is publication date? It is the June newsletter. It says June 2011 on the front page.
By the way it would have been sent out much earlier if the Sec/Treas had just cooperated and simply paid for the printing.

[mfrance]

Dave I mean no disrespect, but I am still trying to figure out why the other signature on the account was not used to use club funds as Kurt answered in one of my questions about this , someone else is on the account. The Board should have voted temp power to use the person to sign for the club funds. anyone have this answer???

I believe all minutes of meetings should be posted online for future refrence in archive on M.V.C.C. site so we the members can see Board actions.

Michael France

[softskin_driver]

I asked that question as well Mike and although Kurt has that capability is seems there has never been a reason to do this by any MVCC president and because of that there is no medium to do that I found out. What I mean is Kurt does not have a check book. Also without the roster the money to print was useless. I received the roster May 8th.
I have asked about the minutes and actually the Sec/Treas sent me some minutes years back but refused to after this disagreement between the board members had started.
I have also heard at the last meeting that official minutes were taken that the minutes were not readable when a board member asked to have them read back for clarification. And I am not sure they were taken at the GMM or any meeting I have attended in an official capacity. I like others when the motion to remove the Sec/Treas was put on the table at Tower voted to table that and although it would be a solution I would be against that. So I waited like everyone else for the sec/Treas to cooperate and do the right thing and release the roster to the membership.
This is troubling but without drastic measures which everyone would rather not think about what else can we do?
I am a firm believer in the minutes being available for all members to see, not sure putting them in the public space is good, a car collecting club like ours should not have anything to hide and although I have only been to a couple of meetings I think the membership has the right to an open door policy.
Of course that’s my opinion. I hate both hidden agendas and politics. And just for the record Mike you can ask me anything you like just please speak your mind openly and I will answer the same way.
One thing the I think many forget is everyone serving currently on the board are car collectors and regular MVCC members as well and not politicians or even certified Parliamentarians.
I know now from the GMM and I have been told Dave Palmerlee is a certified Parliamentarian and has represented himself and acted officially at our meeting as such but as far as I know he is the only official board member now past board member with that experience. And so we do the best we can.
This is why I asked Dave to just ask his questions without all the rhetoric and innuendo.
So just ask your questions if I can answer them I will.

[13th Armored]

Dave,
In answer to your question, the date does matter! Read the By-Laws of the MVCC!
Again:

Article 3, Section 3.10 states and I quote:
“Notice of Regular Elections: Notice of elections shall be by publication in the newsletter not less than (30) days prior to the election for all members in good standing at the time of the notice. Notice shall include the subject matter of the election.”

Do you understand the rules?
Are there 30 days between June 8th and June 18th? Do the math!
It appears to me that you are not in compliance with the MVCC By-Laws!

Again this is a big problem and needs to be addressed by the Board!

[softskin_driver]

Dave...

I am wondering if you have even given any thought to if I could have put the newsletter out sooner that the ballot would have been in compliance with the bylaws and what the holdup was prohibiting that earlier publication. As It was I paid out of my pocket for the printing as a last ditch effort after receiving an envelope full of stamps the week before.
I am tired of dancing around the real problem and who is really the reason or cause if any bylaw was not followed.
Maybe it’s time you ask yourself what you would have done in that situation. Maybe the best we could do under the circumstances is not good enough if so sorry.
The newsletter was printed at OfficeMax June 4 after the Sec/Treas said she would not send me a check or send one to OfficeMax for the printing.
OfficeMax had thier corporate office set up an MVCC account but it took until June 10 noon for that to happen which was 7 working days from the time I started working on that after being strung along and told I would need an invoice and printing would not be prepaid.
You think these little details would be told to you up front not at the last minute so you need to go out and get approved for credit to be invoiced. And on a side note maybe a 1 dollar stamp and a 10 cent stamp would be easier not a bag of 1 cent , 3 cent, 5 cent and 98 cent stamps you think.
The stamps arrived and there was no issue arguing any longer it was obvious the Sec/Treas was not going to cooperate. I paid for the printing and rushed to stuff ballots fold, label, apply postage stamps and edge stickers (thanks MVCC_BAR) and then get the newsletter to the post office on June 8.
You have some good ideas Dave I would not have thought of the PO box to collect incoming ballots, question if you wanted to be a part of the solution process to board issues why resign? Is it the conflict of interest of being President of the NRG board?

[Bill C.]

The NRG has a board?

I'm a member of the NRG. Why wasn't I informed of this?

[MITYMITE99]

Dave did you ever think to ask if the MVCC had a printer with a acct already set up?

[13th Armored]

Dave,
First of all there is no "Board" of the "NRG"as you know the meaning from the bylaws of the MVCC. We are a group of people who hold membership in the MVCC and are concerned about the recent actions of our leadership.
Second let me make this perfectly clear. I am not a certified Parliamentarian nor have I ever represented myself as such.
I do have over 35 years of experience with the Rules of Order, Membership Elections and the running of meetings of Deliberative bodies. I have been an Officer of our club as well as a number of other organizations.
If you paid out of your own pocket for the printing I commend you for your action! Thank you for the work it took to do all that was required.
However, regardless of the state of affairs between the Officers of the MVCC, Kurt Lesser has the power to get money out of the MVCC account. If he was unwilling, or unable to do this then that is another "Board" concern and needs to be addressed in the policies and procedures of the MVCC.
If I were an officer of the MVCC I would call for another meeting of the "Board" and invalidate the current election. Then I would call for a new election with a new committee. Then Ballots could be produced and sent to the members with a cover letter explaining the rules of the election. Those ballots should be returned in a separate envelope, that is not marked other than the Election Committee mailing address, to a holding station. This could be the USPS or a private company with instructions that it could only be opened when all the Election Committee members are present. The envelopes with the Ballots (unmarked) would then be opened by the committee members and the ballots put randomly into a container to be opened after all the envelopes were discarded. At this point the count could take place. Then the vote would be certified by the signatures of the Election Committee. Each candidate would have the right to appoint an Observer to be present at each action of the committee if they desired (in writing, of course). The results of the vote and the ballots should be kept for at least one year in a sealed file.
As to why I resigned, you have seen my resignation letter and as it says I resigned for my own personal convictions.

[softskin_driver]

Randy, really your saying that if asked you for help you would have given it? If so thanks for the offer I appreciate it. I mean that.
Dave I have seen your name with the title NRG President on several Documents one was Gridley so I went with that assumption. I also was told that Pat is the Sec/Treas for the NRG this was where I got the idea that there was an NRG board. I had heard from some NRG friends that at a meeting recently the NRG Board asked if the membership wanted to secede from the MVCC. So that’s why the confusion. If you say there is not an NRG board then ok I will take your word on it. Besides really other than conflict of interest issues I don't care one way or the other.
I was under the opinion that the Sec/Treas was going to help get the elections and the newsletter out after the statement’s to that effect at the Tower GMM. This took too long to negotiate and the May newsletter was also blocked and went on line.
It has been like pulling teeth to get any cooperation. And the roster was given up only after NRG member George Schaefer stepped in and spoke with the Sec/Treas. On the other side of that coin there was the worry that because the bylaws have specific steps and dates to get the ballots out it was needed to do it as quick as possible. There are many things in the bylaws that are easy to interpret different ways one of those is that there is specified a board member as one of the three members serving on that committee. So if all of the board is on the ballot as it has been all of the elections including this one that I can remember there will always be an incumbent member of the board as part of the election committee.
Dave with all the experience you have negotiating did it ever occur to you to ask the Sec/Treas to release the roster and the treasury so that the memberships business could be conducted and a newsletter published. I am asking because I have only just recently been a part of the board meetings and it seems there has been a disconnect somewhere in that regard.
Holding the membership hostage is no way to solve concerns about recent actions of our leadership. You could have done that while I got the newsletters out and the elections were held.
Now finally we have arrived at this point pulling through deep mud to a point where we got a newsletter out and the ballots for an election out to the membership and with all that has happened it starts to rain cats and dogs and the mud is getting even stickier dragging the club down even further in its grip.
Not sure what the goal is but In my opinion there are just few individuals that are the ones yelling louder to get what they want. No matter the cost to the membership at large.


I am out.

[13th Armored]

Dave,
I am aware of the challenges that the club faces as it goes forward. When groups of members are singled out for attacks by many persons, some of whom are on the Board of the MVCC, there will come a time for those groups to speak out in their own defense!

My understanding is that the Secretary/Treasurer's policy has ALWAYS been to receive an invoice from a vendor prior to issuing payment. It is also my understanding that you were informed of this procedure.

As to the election. I am sure that there are many members concerned with the procedures of the election but are unable or unwilling to speak up or get involved. That is the nature of a membership orientated group, such as ours. I would also guess that relatively few of the members even read this website.
You are correct, the By-Laws do specify that a board member be on the committee. However to have the ballots go to his home address is not a proper election procedure. The fact that this same Board member is the center of a controversial Region split also is not a good idea. The By-Laws do specify the 30 day "voting window" and this is being violated. The By-Laws also spell out the time frame for holding the election:
Article 3, Section 3.13, says:
“Votes shall be cast on the official ballot sent to each member in good standing with the May MVCC publication and to be returned to the election committee chairman no later than June 1st.”

I understand the challenge it would have been to meet this deadline, however to violate both sections is a bit much.

The appearance of impropriety is sometimes worse than impropriety itself!

[Chuck Lutz]

Dave Ball....thank you for the efforts to get the newsletter out again and to get the ballots out and answer the questions posed in this thread.

Hopefully those who have already decided to jump ship and start a new club will get on with it and not involve themselves in the details of the coming elections.