T214 Engine Rebuild Question

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17thAirborne
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T214 Engine Rebuild Question

Post by 17thAirborne » Wed Nov 29, 2017 5:24 am

I have a dodge wc 12 with a 1944 T214 230cid flathead engine. To ensure years of reliable performance, and to ensure any previous work is evaluated and corrected if needed, I am going to completely tear it down, measure everything and if needed, have the head machined, block decked and crank turned.

Once this is done I will replace all the standard parts such as gaskets, studs, head bolts,seals, bearings rings and plugs. If needed, the valves, seats, pistons will be replaced, but i won't know until the tear down.

QUESTIONS:

1. what is the best source for standard seals gaskets and bearings?
2. is there a master rebuild kit that is available and reliable? (VPW does not list one)
3. any words of advice before proceeding? (i have engine tm and vpw engine book)
Oz

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Re: T214 Engine Rebuild Question

Post by ng19delta » Wed Nov 29, 2017 7:17 am

Believe it or not, I recommend e-bay for the bits... Pretty much any part is still available NOS, and at reasonable prices, buy it now... I put mine together with NOW pistons, rings, bearings, etc. all from there a few years ago. Before you start purchasing stuff though, get the engine torn all the way down, and get the machine shop to clean it up and check the bores, etc. You may not need a rebore, and could possibly reuse the old ones. Also, if the valves themselves are in decent shape, they can be ground and refinished. The engine already has hardened valve seats, but you may want to have them replaced- usually the machine shop can get them in the $2-$3 a piece range, so quite simple. These engines 217, 230, etc. were pretty much the same except for the stroke for decades- the parts are well available... I do not know of a "master rebuild kit", but wouldn't recommend it if I did- It is better to simply gather the p[arts you NEED than to buy a bunch someone else put together, and coming up short or too much you won't use... BTDT...

These are pretty simple engines, so have fun!

Scott

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Re: T214 Engine Rebuild Question

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:31 am

I recommend Midwest Military, they can answer questions and give advice on the parts they sell.
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Re: T214 Engine Rebuild Question

Post by 17thAirborne » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:48 am

Scott and Ernie,

Thanks for the comments. I have been using VPW and MWM for lots of the previous purchases. I suppose I was trying to be lazy and get everything in one fell swoop, but for sure I will wait until I have everything apart and the major components at the machine shop.

thanks again
Oz

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Re: T214 Engine Rebuild Question

Post by ng19delta » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:49 am

Ben Dover wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:31 am
I recommend Midwest Military, they can answer questions and give advice on the parts they sell.
MWM is indeed a great source.

Scott

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Re: T214 Engine Rebuild Question

Post by tractor12 » Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:54 am

Almost every part for these engines can be bought at Napa as they lasted in other models into the 60s. As Scott said everything is on eBay also and you may get a cheaper price than any store. The bigger dealers are great Joel but aren't the only people carrying engine parts. I would love to see a kit that I a one stop rebuild kit for any engine I have but have yet to see one
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Re: T214 Engine Rebuild Question

Post by 17thAirborne » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:05 am

tractor12 wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 8:54 am
I would love to see a kit that I a one stop rebuild kit for any engine I have but have yet to see one
Clegg sells one for about $750, but I read a few reviews and forums and they meet with mixed comments. Don't know if they are good, but I am leaning toward the gather-the-parts-once-I-find-out-what-I-need route

Thanks Mark
Oz

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Re: T214 Engine Rebuild Question

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:20 am

There are some parts that the local stores may not supply or have available, that's where a hands on surplus dealer comes in handy.
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Re: T214 Engine Rebuild Question

Post by 17thAirborne » Wed Nov 29, 2017 1:38 pm

Ben Dover wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 9:20 am
There are some parts that the local stores may not supply or have available, that's where a hands on surplus dealer comes in handy.
Sounds like I should shop around. Thanks
Oz

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Re: T214 Engine Rebuild Question

Post by Ernie Baals » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:08 pm

The dealers are great, no doubt
For those of us on a tight budget, Rockauto has quite a bit available for the engines
Stick with brand name, Felpro, sealed power, TRW , perfect circle etc
They also have water pumps, tune up parts, seals, brgs, for the engine and driveline
I can help with cross over numbers for you
Ernie

Here is the felpro number for the engine gasket set
FEL-PRO FS7564C2 {Click Info Button for Alternate/OEM Part Numbers} Rear MAIN Bearing. Seal & Timing Cover Seal Not Included Info
Rear MAIN Bearing. seal not included.
Rockauto has it for $61.79
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Re: T214 Engine Rebuild Question

Post by 17thAirborne » Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:38 pm

Ernie Baals wrote:
Wed Nov 29, 2017 2:08 pm
The dealers are great, no doubt
For those of us on a tight budget, Rockauto has quite a bit available for the engines
Stick with brand name, Felpro, sealed power, TRW , perfect circle etc
They also have water pumps, tune up parts, seals, brgs, for the engine and driveline
I can help with cross over numbers for you
Ernie

Here is the felpro number for the engine gasket set
FEL-PRO FS7564C2 {Click Info Button for Alternate/OEM Part Numbers} Rear MAIN Bearing. Seal & Timing Cover Seal Not Included Info
Rear MAIN Bearing. seal not included.
Rockauto has it for $61.79
Thanks Ernie. this will really help me to keep the engine rebuild costs down. I'll contact you once i see what the inside looks like.
Oz

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Re: T214 Engine Rebuild Question

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:08 am

Early or late rear Main seal? They are quite different. If yours is indeed a pre 1953 T-214 Block, the seal will be a bolt on. Be careful, there are post 1953 T-214 Blocks that take a Late Seal.
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Re: T214 Engine Rebuild Question

Post by W. Winget » Thu Nov 30, 2017 9:52 am

My 1st stop would be the machine shop before ordering anything. As they are in the business, they can (sometimes) get whole kits we cannot get for discounted prices.
Ask for a tour, see how clean they are, if there’s not a ton of crap stacked by every machine and oil on the floor, it’s possibly a better shop, and likely more expensive because they are more professional.
Caveat that, in that If all you see are bright clean CNC machines, they likely won’t have older experienced machinists that have ever seen a 230CI engine.
Since the shop will be installing the seats for you, they will likely order out of their jobber catalog, and the same goes for rings, etc.
1st stop by and chat, then disassemble and let them inspect, then discuss who's ordering what, then let them machine it, and do the mechanical work you don’t want to and you finish her up.
Or after explaining that you’re restoring a WWII Army truck let them offer to do more work enthusiastically, as it's not the run of the mill Chevy 350/Ford 302 block they are working on.
Just remember that you can never add metal back on the top of the deck, you can re-sleeve it, change cam bearings and replace the head, but without drastic (read as “expensive”) techniques you can’t build the block surface back up, so checking for flatness within tolerance is better than just taking .010 off the block.
Last thought from the old Power Wagon Magazine I recall the following: The dodge 230 overheats if you do not have the brass distribution tube changed. Do this whenever the radiator and water pump are out of the front of the engine.

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Re: T214 Engine Rebuild Question

Post by 17thAirborne » Thu Nov 30, 2017 8:33 pm

Winget,
Great advice along with the others. I am planning to take the key parts to a local shop probably next week. I have discussed the project with the owner who has been doing this for 30ish years. he works on lots of flat heads, bu the shop is marginally clean, although he just invested in a new crankshaft turning machine. I am going to measure every surface before i take it for evaluation. So far there is no plan to order anything other than gaskets and seals, the rest will be based on the eval.

glad you mentioned that about the parts and the water distro tube.

oz
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Re: T214 Engine Rebuild Question

Post by dpcd67 » Fri Dec 01, 2017 6:47 am

I get all my engine parts from Vintage Power wagons; they do not sell a kit and you don't want one. They are nice guys and they know what it takes to do that job. They have a fully staffed repair shop too.
The best auto machine shop in the world is Abrahams; no one under the age of 50 is there and they know old iron. And yes, they get work from all over the world; last summer they had a Packard straight 8 block in for machining. From New Zealand.
I have a T223 engine in my shop right now under assembly so if you have any questions, PM me. Why did I pause on it? Started an M38 engine in the middle of the WC restoration; I know, not recommended.
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