tool closeups number 2

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tool closeups number 2

Postby john barton » Sat May 24, 2003 6:27 pm

I posted some closeups of the screwdriver, air chuck, fairmount hammer a few weeks ago...someone replied to that post today..but the photo's are gone...i rent photo storage space and only leave them up for two weeks..
here are some more close ups..I posted them originally at the request of some fellow 503'ers..The pix on this site are better than any of the picture books or manuals...but you can not see the details..
here are some more
pix to follow
Image
fairmount 11 in auto:
Image
and an original decon unit..several people requested this..
Image
i found all of these at flea markets etc...
all of the wrenches are fairmount, i will post a reply after this with some questions about these wrenches..
the 11 inch auto is one of several fairmount styles, some have FAIRMOUNT across the sliding part. others say Fairmount along the long handle..have seen fairmount, fairmount cleve, fairmount ftf...etc..fairmount USA or 11 in auto..there are a lot of them around...many different markings
i pictured the fairmounts because the tool site here details the Willys tool kit which featured all fairmount..
Mr. Gilmore says GPW's used Williams...I will picture those wrenches later
i have in the past sold a Williams hammer, williams 11 in auto, the wrench set with the five correct numbers etc..
I will post a reply with some more open end wrench info..
thanks ...john
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Postby john barton » Sat May 24, 2003 6:54 pm

jeep wrenches...
ok...Willys used Fairmount, and Ford used Williams..I believe that and have no info to the contrary...but i do have some questions..
I have some Motor Service magazines from WWII..
there are ads from Armstong, Billings, Bonney, Vlcheck, Snap On, etc all showing that they made tools for gov't service....some show trucks, airplanes, etc..but not even the williams ad shows a jeep..
so are fairmount and williams the only jeep wrench makers??
the jeep set of 5 wrenches have a INS stamped on them..
It stands for Industry Standard Number..never seen a dictionary definition..but i think we can be fairly certain that it was the predecessor to FSN and NSN's...if the gov't got a tool from one company...they wanted to make sure if they got one from another company..that it would be the same...
I also have a tool catalog with a list of all the ISN's for wrenches..and what size they are..there is a 23, 723, 723A, 723B...etc..
the five in the jeep set..723, 25, 27C, 28S, and 731A..are only a few in about 30 wrenches that fall within the jeep sizes..
I know the manuals even screw this up...the ford packing list says 28D while the ord books and manuals have the usual list...but..interestingly
the tool catalog does not list 27C and 28S...are they particular to the jeep?
all the dodge wrenches are there..721, 727...etc...
there is no date in the catalog..however the wrench prices are all the same as the prices in the parts lists??it must be close..so maybe it preceeded the jeep sets...
so if i find 28S or 27C by another company..was it a jeep wrench..I realize all the hundred other vehicles had tool sets so a 28S may not be that unusual..
but I have complete billings sets with the jeep numbers...and armstrong wrenches with the jeep ISN's??...so did anyone else but williams and fairmont make jeep sets...I have Velchek 28S..it does not appear in the dodge lists??and a dodge toolkit features Vlchek tools??
so i still don't know...if anyone has additional info please let us know..I think other companies made jeep wrenches??
thanks john
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Postby SamKimpton » Sat May 24, 2003 8:09 pm

If you look at ORD-7 SNL-G503 you will see a print of a jeep tool kit in which the chains are contained by a bag marke with a GPW part number and a full wet of engineers open end wrenches made by BARCALOW. Althoug the markings can not be read they are readily identifiable by the raised flat area on the handles of the wrenches.

Bonney, Williams, Vlchek, Diamond etc also made tools to the exact spec's used by Jeeps and I would be very hesitant to exclude them as apropriate jeep tools.
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Postby john barton » Sat May 24, 2003 8:30 pm

I have that ord and the picture...I can not make out the name on the wrenches...but i agree they do not look like the williams..
I do have a set of barcalo buffalo...with ISN's that match..they do have a raised area..
I have heard that thought before...but I also have a set of wrenches by CONTROLLED STEEL..that also look like those in the ORD..some say idestructo...I don't have a whole set but i do have some with the ISN's
I also have a blue point, a craftsman, and a PLOMB, with ISN..there are also wrenches that have no other mark but... made in USA that have the ISN's...I think a whole lot of companies made wrenches for the gov't in WWII..
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Postby SamKimpton » Sun May 25, 2003 2:07 am

Absolutely John;

There were a plethora of makers for tools.

If you look through the parts catalogue or the list in TM9-803 you will also see the tools listed with their drawing number (e.g. 41-W-xxxx) Manufacturers are not listed and as such any tool maching that drawing number might be fair game.

the fact that the kit in the tools section of the website includes a set of Fairmont wrenches supports the claim that these were issued with MB's.

The Photo of the Barcalo wrenches associated with GPW specific items in ORD-7 supports their use in GPW kits.

This does not mean that other makers were not used, nor does it indicate that a GPW could not have been equiped with Fairmont wrenches and that an MB could not have been issued with Barcalow wrenches.

Also it would not be atypical to see a vehicle in service with the odd tool made by a different maker. A defective, lost, or broken tool could have been replaced with anything.

To my mind one of the "holy grails" of tool kits is a complete set of wrenches made by the same manufacturer. I have nearly completed my fairmont set and also my Barcalo set. Each needs only one wrench to be complete.

As it is I can put together a complete set of mismatched (by maker) wrenches.

Jeep myopia aside, I have also found lots of cool GI tools at garage and estate sales, flee markets and junk shops. Things like trouble lights, inspection lights, jacks, canvas items boxes of several types, paint, cotters, wrenches, flux, multi meters, etc. What can I say,..I love tools,..especially GI ones :-)

In fact I was at an estate sale recently and heard a woman complaining about how her husband was always buying worn out rusty junk tools at estate sales. That by the time they would get in the sale all the dealers and other "men" had purchased all the good tools. What she failed to realize was that often times those junk tools include that rare and sought after blivet we need for our tool kits, spare parts kits or collections.

I also look for packing materials, Yesterday I found an entire roll of foil backed craft paper of the kind used for the accesory packs for 5 in 1 and 10 in 1 rations, and the wound (sulfadiazine) tablets, I also recently purchased a roll of string reinforced olive drab wrapping paper at another sale.

Well I better end this monotribe and get some sleep.

Thanks for letting me vent guys.
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Postby Jim Gilmore » Sun May 25, 2003 11:19 am

I would like to clear up one point.

I have stated that Ford used Williams wrenches. This is NOT to say that these were the only ones used. Just that I have data that shows this brand in use with Ford vehicles.

Tools were made by many Mfg's but all were to the spec's laid down by the Govt. contracts and to QMC drawings.

Early wrenches were cad plated until this metal was put on the restricted list. Then phosphate or paint coatings were used.

Many wrenches and tools used by the military were NOT marked with a maker's name but only with a symbol. WMS for Williams, BF for Bonney Forge and Tool Works, SN for Snap-on Tools Inc. and so on........

If you really want to get to the bottom of the tool thing......then you need to get a copy of ORD 5 SNL - J-4.

This publication lists all the wrenches and other tools used in vehicle (and other) tool kits.

Even the fluted transmission wrench for the jeep is listed and many of the tools are illustrated.


The number on a wrench such as 723 etc is, as others have said, a industry standard. Thus a 723C wrench will be the same no matter who makes it and will be different from a 723D.

The 41-W number is the Federal Stock Number of the wrench.

41-W-1469-15 would be a 9/16 & 9/16 45 and 90 degree wrench.

Drawing numbers would look like this ..... TKBX7A.


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Postby SamKimpton » Sun May 25, 2003 3:11 pm

Never said you stated that you were maintaining that Williams was the only brand that came with Ford jeeps jim.

I felt that the matter needed to be clarified as I have bumped into some folks that did beleive that sort of thing.

Sorry if there was a misunderstanding here.

Thanks for the info on ORD 5 SNL - J-4. Now I have another item on my want list :-)

This is a cool thread!
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Postby Keith Buckley » Tue May 27, 2003 7:17 am

To add more fule to the fire on this one, does anybody know which forge they came from?

What I'm getting at is that even in wartime, I thought that the Litton and Easco forges were two of the 3 or 4 that were used. I thought SK, Bonney, Williams, Kraueter, and some others were all forged by Litton, and then stamped and finished at different locations.

If Barcalo Buffalo has a raised pad, and another looks to be the same, they may be from the same dies.

Easco in Springfield Mass still makes the few Craftsman tools that are made in the US.
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Postby SamKimpton » Tue May 27, 2003 7:16 pm

This is an interesting question.

I must adimit that I have no idea.

As for adding the fuel to the fire. I am glad you "forged" ahead and raised this question.

What we need here is a tool forum!
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Postby Alasdair Brass » Tue May 27, 2003 7:57 pm

Hi Guys,
I have a set of correctly numbered open ended wrenches that appear to be unused. The only makers indentification is what appears to be a type of "X" in a circle. The X is possibly more like back to back C's. Someone thought this might be OTC. Any ideas?

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Postby AZ Jeff » Tue May 27, 2003 10:33 pm

Al,

I believe the circle-"X" maker mark is actually a circled "D-C" for Duro-Chrome -- look at it closely and you'll see the arms of the X are bowed.

I've got three of these wrenches in correct size combinations but with four digit numbers: ie "28S" = "1028S".

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Postby lucakiki » Wed May 28, 2003 2:33 am

SamKimpton wrote:
What we need here is a tool forum!
That would be nice!Of course without forgetting the g503 tools section!This section is the one to blame for my joining the gee!
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

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Postby doug p. » Fri May 30, 2003 10:47 pm

Just a small post to remind people that these tools are still out there in garage sales-I just picked up the correct Irwin screwdriver out of a box of rusty old files and other junk for 1$ today.I've picked up a fair number of jeep (and Dodge) tools in the "2$ for the whole box" type of sale.
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Postby Mighty Eighth » Sat May 31, 2003 3:33 am

Were any of the correct tools made and stamped by Ford?
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Postby lucakiki » Sat May 31, 2003 5:03 am

I do not think so,Gary.Of course some guys try to pass some Ford marked tools as correct,but they just try to make some extra bucks from a car tool.Ditto for the Fire extinguisher.Not so for the engine hand crank.
Disclaimer:as far as I know.
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WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

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