shovels and more shovels ADDED more info

Manufacturers, configurations, Shovels, Axe, Wrenches, Oiler, F/E etc.
john barton
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Post by john barton » Sat Dec 17, 2005 1:45 pm

Hi Mark...not familiar with name...but i have seen it before..I sold a shovel that had that mark and other writing on the front side with it in the normal places..I probably have the picture that i posted with it on some old discs...I'll look through them...
check for very small print on outside of D handle..Most dhandle have some info...even if it is just patent numbers..
pretty smart marketing for way back then... a spade company using the spade symbol!!!!..
looking thru old discs!!
thanks, John...AMES, BALDWIN, & CO???
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Re: shovels and more shovels

Post by Bob N » Fri Dec 23, 2005 7:18 am

john barton wrote:I recently received some dated gov’t documents that give extremely detailed specifications for shovels. They include drawings, measurement, markings, finish, etc. I’ll show some scans below. They provide complete descriptions of many types and styles.

I’d like to show some info about the number 2, round point, D handle shovel, usually associated with our jeeps. First, I have not seen any WWII documents or manuals that state a MB/GPW gets a #2 shovel. It has been discussed on here many times, with the basic spec’s given, that this (#2 round point D handle) is the jeep shovel. I have yet to see- in any G503 wartime SNL, ORD7 8 9, or TM, a description of a shovel. There are pictures of jeeps with shovels on them in a few manuals, but they are not discussed. I have seen articles in the MV magazines that gave unit Tables of Equipment (T/E)‘s. If there was a jeep and a shovel in a T/E, I guess you could make a connection and claim that at least one jeep and a shovel would eventually meet.
Not sure this will satisfy the evidence requirements but here goes...
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This is from A Guide For Transport Officers and Maintenance Officers, The Infantry School, Automotive Section, Fort Benning, GA. "designed primarily for use by officers of the Infantry Regiment, Rifle."

Now for more "official" channels, if you look in SNL G503 OSP&E, 6 June 1943, the shovel is listed.

Shovel, general purose, D handled strap back, round point" doesn't refer to it as "No. 2 though". 41-S-3170.

Don't know if it helps the discussion or not but I found it interesting.
Bob N.
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Post by john barton » Sun Jan 29, 2006 12:08 am

brought up to use for pictures in the post about axes
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Post by john barton » Fri Apr 14, 2006 3:49 pm

brought to top to show added info
thanks, John
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Post by Larry E Long » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:15 am

John,

In the drawing of the shovel where all the specs are shown as A, B, C, etc., the only one a size is given for is D, 38 3/8 to 41 3/8". Is there any info on the two "lift" dimensions E & F? I know about Claude Pons "flea market" test but was wondering if the "official" measurements have ever been documented.

Thanks for the great job on this,
Larry
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Post by john barton » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:28 am

Wow...that is an old post...
some of the pics are gone. I use a free image hosting site..
I'm surprised they have stayed up this long...
I will pull out the specs when I get home...at work now
As I recall, the specs just listed ranges for those dimensions??
Are you going to Jim Thorpe...I'll bring the spec sheets?

I believe Jon Rogers has all the pics on his website if anyone wants to see.
Axe post is there also.

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Post by Larry E Long » Wed Feb 20, 2008 8:36 am

Wow, quick response! :D Yes, I'll be at Jim Thorpe on Saturday. I'll see ya there, John, thanks.

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Re:

Post by Constabulary » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:22 am

Mark Tombleson wrote:Might as well ask John, or anyone else what this mfg mark is.
Image
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The shovel has a closed back with the triagle reinforcement.
AB&C inside a spade.
I pull this old threat because I know what the AB&C in the spade means!
AB&C is a German company called A.BREDT & Co. Today the company s name is IDEALSPATEN-Bredt GmbH und Co. KG

I striped the paint from 3 shovels today and on one I found the spade with a stock number underneath the spade, It even has a1962 date.
And it clearly shows the german army stock number 5120-12-129-0716. Google did the rest.
Maybe the company supplied the US Army in Germany or Europe with these shovels back in the 1960´s.

http://www.nsn-now.com/Indexing/PublicS ... 2-120-0716" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.tmdb.de/de/marke/ABC_PIK_AS,DE493562.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

EDIT:
Picture of the markings
IMG_1235.JPG
IMG_1235.JPG (70.75 KiB) Viewed 4591 times
Last edited by Constabulary on Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:31 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: shovels and more shovels ADDED more info

Post by Constabulary » Sat Nov 05, 2011 9:58 am

The mentioned shovel with the spade almost looks like a #2 WS & T. CO. made shovel I have.
I can post some pictures tomorrow.
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Re: shovels and more shovels ADDED more info

Post by Constabulary » Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:23 am

just for the case someone is interested in the comparison.
On top or at the right is the German Army shovel.

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Re: shovels and more shovels ADDED more info

Post by MB399579 » Sun Nov 06, 2011 3:48 am

This german made showel didn't surprised me a lot as german made tools could often been found in french army tools kit during the post war period. For example, I own 6" pliers, different kind of open end wrenches, pliers cutting... with german brand and ISN number.
These tools have been furnished for the allied occupation armies in Germany after the ww2 as refund for war damages.
Willys MB 399579 - December 44
Register number (I've found it ! ) 20661416 S
Nickname "Peggy" (I've found it too !!!)
If you know a woman called Peggy, around 80 years old...

1944 Bantam T-3 - ACM# 114246

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Re: shovels and more shovels ADDED more info

Post by Constabulary » Mon Nov 07, 2011 12:50 am

I thought this could be be a good reference for someone who comes across such shovel. :wink:
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Re: shovels and more shovels ADDED more info

Post by Johan WILLAERT » Wed Jan 02, 2013 4:00 am

Just bumping this excellent topic back to the top with this early U.S.E.D. shovel which I received as a Christmas gift from a collector friend...
Metal seems to be bronze or something like that
No maker marks, only I and 4 on the cast grip....

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MVPA#14204
Huffman D50546 (1942)
Westfield Columbia MG138969 & MG140418 (1943)
HD 42WLA31854 (1943)
Ford GPW272xxx (1945)
Bantam T3 56433(Est) (1945)
John Wood M3A4 17564 (1943)
Johnston Lawn Mower Co RL35-A 1255 (1944)
BSA Mark V* T136102 (1944)
The Liberator

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Re: shovels and more shovels ADDED more info

Post by Johan WILLAERT » Wed Jan 02, 2013 7:08 am

And for reference, two spare handles

Image

Image
MVPA#14204
Huffman D50546 (1942)
Westfield Columbia MG138969 & MG140418 (1943)
HD 42WLA31854 (1943)
Ford GPW272xxx (1945)
Bantam T3 56433(Est) (1945)
John Wood M3A4 17564 (1943)
Johnston Lawn Mower Co RL35-A 1255 (1944)
BSA Mark V* T136102 (1944)
The Liberator

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Re: shovels and more shovels ADDED more info

Post by lucakiki » Tue Feb 26, 2013 4:37 am

This old thread still retains its value after all those years.
I cannot but repeat once more how John Barton ( and his style) is sadly missed.
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

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