Wrench Fluted Socket

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Wingnutt
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Re: Wrench Fluted Socket

Post by Wingnutt » Wed Mar 14, 2018 7:03 pm

My conclusions about Steve's late war OSN 8560 41-W-2459-500 Jeep Bristol wrenches and the relationship between those wrenches and the early- to mid-war 41-W-2459 stamped Jeep Bristol wrenches with 7/32" fluted ends that emerged just last year can be found in my first post on this thread. My conclusions about Willys factory-issued Bristol wrenches has already been stated in White, Vol 5, Chapter 40, and gladly re-hashed on my Bristol wrench thread, linked here. (EDIT: By request, while the whole thread is interesting reading in its own right, key posts on Willys factory-issued subject start on page 6 and culminate with this post and this post on page 7.) I have not seen any new information that would cause me to re-consider that position, and I have no reason or desire to re-state it or re-argue it, here or there.
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Re: Wrench Fluted Socket

Post by Tin Medic » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:12 am

Chuck, I will get those dimensions for you.

Also, for those interested, I have 3 wrenches left.
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Chuck Lutz
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Re: Wrench Fluted Socket

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:50 am

I've read all that Greg....but in light of the fully-fluted "7-42" Bristol wrenches with the "A-1492" markings on the wrappers, I see no reason to categorize a short-fluted style as viable for a jeep up to "Mid-War"....that designation should be changed for that short-flute style to simply "up to mid-1942 or earlier". Even the Willys drawings seem to be having drawings of BOTH on one sheet and have missing "change date" to the fully-fluted in 1942. Again, the drawings are a GUIDE in this instance, not the Gospel.

And....this should in no way indicate which style of the Bristol wrench style was used from the beginning of production to the end of production in a GPW factory tool kit.

I only brought this up because I was asked if the short-fluted style was correct for a GPW and when that style was changed at Willys in favor of the fully-fluted style if that effected a change from the shot-flute to fully fluted one for any GPWs.

While ORDNANCE may have continued to order the short-fluted style during WWII, that does not in any way effect what our jeeps were furnished with at the factory.

Looking forward to seeing the dimensions of ORIGINAL Ford packaged Bristol wrenches!

PS...did anyone run across the Bristol Wrench Drawing in the Ford Drawings made available?
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
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Re: Wrench Fluted Socket

Post by Wingnutt » Thu Mar 15, 2018 11:41 am

Chuck Lutz wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:50 am
I've read all that Greg....
Apparently not. You just re-stated your argument from the thread I linked above, to include your misreading of the Willys A-1492 drawing, and I already told you why I disagree, in detail, in the same thread. There has been no new information or development since that time. Any further discussion of that subject would quite literally be redundant and unnecessary there, and irrelevant and potentially disruptive here.
Tin Medic wrote:
Thu Mar 15, 2018 10:12 am
I have 3 wrenches left.
HOTCAKES! :)
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Re: Wrench Fluted Socket

Post by Klaas » Tue Jan 01, 2019 9:04 am

I posted some information on the elusive Bristol wrench here:viewtopic.php?f=48&t=260699&start=90#p1761599
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Re: Wrench Fluted Socket

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Jan 01, 2019 10:07 am

After looking at the Willys Bristol Wrench Drawing, I can't quite make out the date of the option to the full-fluted style, so the short-flutes is where Willys started. After that, the "7-42" marked wrapper with an A-"1492" seems to say they were in use by that time.

We have discussed before the problems with what seems to be Willys making changes to the DRAWINGS long after changes to the parts occured. We can also note the Willys Hammer Drawing for instance which is vague at best in describing the mesurements of the BALL and addresses the face diameter (the business end), the weight and shows ONE of the many shapes of the hammer head itself. That seems to indicate the SHAFT design is of no consequence....and the hammer "ball" dimensions are not listed so it would seem they are of no consequence either, see where this is going?

Since the "business end" of the Bristol wrenches and the dimensions of it are the same from the short fluted to the fully fluted, apparently the fully fluted did not offer any positive or negative effects in the use of the wrench aside from the fluted design being harder to keep from dropping into the T-84.

We can all decide for ourselves what Willys did with that drawing....did they change early enough for a "7-42" dated Bristol to be a fully fluted?
Did Willys just make the change to the drawing long after they made the change in 1942?

However, without a drawing from Ford to give us a timeline, GPW guys are left in the lurch here. I think Willys got theirs from WG while Ford either made them in-house or got them from a vendor....and were either fully fluted from Day One or at some point in time also made the change.

I would point out that the short-fluted one used a "41-W-2459" stamping on the shaft.....from that, I would expect Ford to also mark their Bristol wrenches with "GPW-17091" as Ford was marking quite a lot of things with their part numbers in the tool kit. Not everything, mind you, but if Ford ordered them from WG lke Willys did and Willys had WG stamp a Willys part number on the shank, you might very well expect WG to stamp the ones for Ford with a Ford part number.

Now, I'm not as concerned over the confusion between a Willys 7-42 fully fluted package and the Willys drawing because I am not a Willys guy, I am a Ford GPW guy. So if anyone has a short-fluted Bristol with "GPW-17091" stamped on it or anyone has a Ford Drawing they can post, I'd love to see it. While I do follow the Willys changes/timelines to compare to those at Ford, the drawings from both Ford and Willys are not the Bible.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: Wrench Fluted Socket

Post by d42jeep » Wed Jan 02, 2019 6:42 am

Here is the cosmoline covered wrench out of the box that Tin Medic was nice enough to send me.
-Don
Attachments
6BBCAE5A-102B-4C07-88B3-A07900B2B3AD.jpeg
Bristol wrench in cosmoline
6BBCAE5A-102B-4C07-88B3-A07900B2B3AD.jpeg (67.56 KiB) Viewed 853 times
1863D1C8-FE1D-4030-ABD8-AE54A042CB1C.jpeg
1863D1C8-FE1D-4030-ABD8-AE54A042CB1C.jpeg (88.74 KiB) Viewed 853 times
Ford GPW 76344 DOD 11/42 Built in Richmond, CA


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