FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
- d42jeep
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
Since I've searched my old pictures for FSN marked tools, here is a Williams 18" flex handle that I used to have. It always bothered me that it didn't have a hole for a crossbar but I'm not sure that adds much to the question of when it was made.
-Don
-Don
- Attachments
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- 41-H-1502 Handle, Socket Wrench, Flexible Head, 18”, ½" Drive - Williams
- IMG_6353.JPG (111.82 KiB) Viewed 2385 times
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- 41-H-1502 Handle, Socket Wrench, Flexible Head, 18”, ½" Drive -Williams
- IMG_6352.JPG (37.58 KiB) Viewed 2385 times
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- 41-H-1502
- IMG_6351.JPG (44.77 KiB) Viewed 2385 times
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- 41-H-1502 Handle, Socket Wrench, Flexible Head, 18”, ½" Drive -Williams
- IMG_6350.JPG (107.72 KiB) Viewed 2385 times
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- 41-H-1502
- IMG_6338.JPG (175.06 KiB) Viewed 2385 times
Ford GPW 76344 DOD 11/42 Built in Richmond, CA
- Wingnutt
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
Interesting that yours is a -502, Don. Per the March 1945 ORD 6 SNL J-4 that was 18" so you are right on the money. Did you see my -503 on page 1? According to the same reference, mine was supposed to be 15" long. (Someone slagged off the business end of my example with a torch.)
Both tools are VERY enlightening!
According to the 1941 catalog, several 1943 and 1945 R-409 Supersocket pamphlets, and the 1947 Tools of Industry catalog, Williams made an S-40 (12" long, no cross bar hole), an S-41 (17-1/4" long, 7/16" cross bar hole, and female 1/2-inch drive end for use as extension), and an S-42 (14" long, 7/16" cross bar hole, and female 1/2-inch drive end for use as extension). All of those breakers have a typical knurled handle that is larger than the diameter of the beam of the handle. In other words, not like ours, where the handle essentially is the beam and crudely knurled. Anyone interested should go find those catalogs on Tool Archives and check out the pics.
These 41-H marked Williams breakers do not look anything like the breakers Williams was putting in their catalogs.
Given the FSN, and the finish, and the simplified forging (no "handle", no cross-bar hole) - I highly suspect WWII production.
All,
It's good to see so much activity on this thread, and on the G in general.
Steve,
Are you wishing you hadn't taken one step forward on this yet?
Both tools are VERY enlightening!
According to the 1941 catalog, several 1943 and 1945 R-409 Supersocket pamphlets, and the 1947 Tools of Industry catalog, Williams made an S-40 (12" long, no cross bar hole), an S-41 (17-1/4" long, 7/16" cross bar hole, and female 1/2-inch drive end for use as extension), and an S-42 (14" long, 7/16" cross bar hole, and female 1/2-inch drive end for use as extension). All of those breakers have a typical knurled handle that is larger than the diameter of the beam of the handle. In other words, not like ours, where the handle essentially is the beam and crudely knurled. Anyone interested should go find those catalogs on Tool Archives and check out the pics.
These 41-H marked Williams breakers do not look anything like the breakers Williams was putting in their catalogs.
Given the FSN, and the finish, and the simplified forging (no "handle", no cross-bar hole) - I highly suspect WWII production.
All,
It's good to see so much activity on this thread, and on the G in general.
Steve,
Are you wishing you hadn't taken one step forward on this yet?
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- gpw_42
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
Lol!
So long as I continue to have large amounts of time on my hands, it's all good. If & when that changes, then....we'll see what happens. I'm learning a LOT (despite not updating the posted spreadsheet, I'm keeping a fairly good running tally).
What's somewhat surprising to me is the accuracy of the initial hypothesis ("won't be able to nail down much detailed info on production dates"). Hopefully time will help to settle that out, and refine at least some of it.
Steve
- d42jeep
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
Here is an FSN marked auger bit set that I assume is postwar. The markings on the canvas are difficult to make out but I'm pretty sure that the number is 41-B-711 which I haven't found in any wartime documents.
-Don
-Don
- Attachments
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- FSN auger bit set
- IMG_6629.JPG (189.78 KiB) Viewed 2348 times
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- 41-B-711?
- IMG_6628.JPG (176.36 KiB) Viewed 2348 times
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- 1953?
- IMG_6627.JPG (167.87 KiB) Viewed 2348 times
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
Wow, that's a nice Jacobs set, Don. Have you posted that before? Am I seeing things, or is the roll-up dated 1953 after the address. That's probably one of the last years you'd see the old Treasury Department FSN's.
Is that an expansive bit in the first pocket? What goes in the little pocket to the left of it?
There are bits and bit sets in the March 1945 ORD 5 SNL J-2. There is a 41-B-715 with thirteen (13) bits in a roll-up. No expansive bit. I'll post a scan with the sizes. Looks close. 41-B-711 might be the same with the expansive bit.
EDIT:
Here's the scan, Don.
Is that an expansive bit in the first pocket? What goes in the little pocket to the left of it?
There are bits and bit sets in the March 1945 ORD 5 SNL J-2. There is a 41-B-715 with thirteen (13) bits in a roll-up. No expansive bit. I'll post a scan with the sizes. Looks close. 41-B-711 might be the same with the expansive bit.
EDIT:
Here's the scan, Don.
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- d42jeep
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
I don't believe that I've posted it before because I assumed that it was postwar. That is an expansive bit on the left. All of the pockets are labeled with the tool description except the little pocket, which was empty when I got it.
-Don
-Don
- Attachments
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- Closer view
- IMG_6656.JPG (206.27 KiB) Viewed 2316 times
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
This DOE is on the auction site so I don't know anything about it other than the pictures. Here is the seller's description. "vtg wrench ---- Federal Stock no. 41 -W 1012-20 --- size 3/4" & 15/16" J.O. Manufacturing co." Here are the pictures.
-Don
-Don
- Attachments
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- 41-W-1012-20
- IMG_6673.JPG (87.33 KiB) Viewed 2313 times
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- IMG_6672.JPG (76.75 KiB) Viewed 2313 times
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- IMG_6671.JPG (83.65 KiB) Viewed 2313 times
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- IMG_6670.JPG (73.68 KiB) Viewed 2313 times
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
Wow. Not only spelled out, but spelled out in all caps!
I'm betting wartime on this one. I've had JO Mfg tools. 9/32-inch wingnut sockets that were mixed in with Snap-On, Williams and Plomb in a surplus lot, and you guys may recall the click-stop torque wrench that is now in the UK with saddle tramp.
I'm betting wartime on this one. I've had JO Mfg tools. 9/32-inch wingnut sockets that were mixed in with Snap-On, Williams and Plomb in a surplus lot, and you guys may recall the click-stop torque wrench that is now in the UK with saddle tramp.
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
Even though Mudbox posted some boxes containing Arcturus wrenches at the beginning of the thread, here are a couple of pictures of the wrenches showing the FSN. I'm not sure when they were made.
-Don
-Don
- Attachments
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- Arcturus DOE wrenches
- IMG_6333.JPG (149.4 KiB) Viewed 2300 times
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- 41-W-1005-5 and 41-W-1003
- IMG_6334.JPG (146.21 KiB) Viewed 2300 times
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
hello
the little pocket on the left side of the roll hold a tiny boxed wrench it is what mine have
frenchman
the little pocket on the left side of the roll hold a tiny boxed wrench it is what mine have
frenchman
- d42jeep
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
Thanks, Frenchman! Is there any chance that you can post a picture of that wrench and let me know the sizes so I will be able to replace what I am missing? It would be nice to complete the set.
-Don
-Don
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
With a prompt from frenchman I double checked what I thought was the empty pocket and found the smaller cutter for the expansive bit. Frenchman's set also had a couple of screwdriver bits and a countersink so I added one each of those to my set. His also had a small pressed steel wrench for his expansive bit.Wingnutt wrote: ↑Mon Nov 06, 2017 10:51 amWow, that's a nice Jacobs set, Don. Have you posted that before? Am I seeing things, or is the roll-up dated 1953 after the address. That's probably one of the last years you'd see the old Treasury Department FSN's.
Is that an expansive bit in the first pocket? What goes in the little pocket to the left of it?
-Don
- Attachments
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- Small cutter and extra tools
- IMG_6707.JPG (186.2 KiB) Viewed 2268 times
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- Small cutter
- IMG_6706.JPG (137.14 KiB) Viewed 2268 times
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
I already posted this on my Early Bird thread, but it belongs here as well.
A JPD made 1953 (I.1.3) PROTO Los Angeles 8" adjustable with the 41-W-486 FSN stamped on the flip side. This is the second one I have held in my hand, stamped the exact same way, so I think it was a factory marking. Has to be one of the latest tools we'll see with this format FSN.
A JPD made 1953 (I.1.3) PROTO Los Angeles 8" adjustable with the 41-W-486 FSN stamped on the flip side. This is the second one I have held in my hand, stamped the exact same way, so I think it was a factory marking. Has to be one of the latest tools we'll see with this format FSN.
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- gpw_42
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
Spreadsheet on page 1 of the thread is now updated, with all the tools posted to date in this thread.
FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF REDUNDANCY:
There are more pages of the spreadsheet which I didn't post; to keep the font large enough to be legible, would require 2 more pages to be posted. Those pages only have links to the different tools posted to the spreadsheet, many of which are already posted in this thread. If anyone is interested in the full spreadsheet, PM me with your email address.
Steve
FROM THE DEPARTMENT OF REDUNDANCY:
There are more pages of the spreadsheet which I didn't post; to keep the font large enough to be legible, would require 2 more pages to be posted. Those pages only have links to the different tools posted to the spreadsheet, many of which are already posted in this thread. If anyone is interested in the full spreadsheet, PM me with your email address.
Steve
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Re: FSN Marked Tools & Their Dates of Production
Nice job, Steve. And thanks again. It's great to see someone else stepping up to do some recordkeeping.
One recent observation. The FSN on the 1953 date coded Proto adjustable (example in post above) looks like it was stamped with the same die and at the same time as the rest of the marking in the panel on the handle. The FSN on Don's horseshoe Diamalloy adjustable (and on another example that just popped up on a sales thread here) was stamped into the head. All the other markings on those wrenches were forged in as on any Diamalloy. Whether that was at the factory during production is unknown. Doesn't really help one way or another, just an observation for now.
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