Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

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Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

Post by mudbox » Wed May 11, 2016 9:46 am

In my continued quest to find an appropriate knife for the GMTK (without spending a TON of money), I purchased this PAL knife off the auction site. Markings looked correct and the wood scales didn't seem to be marked U.S. Army, but I thought perhaps the scales had worn down over time and the marking was just gone.
If memory serves me right, PAL and KA-BAR are the only 2 to have marked their knives with US Army.
Anyway. I get the knife today. And I'm a bit upset at seeing some engraving. The ad didn't mention engraving... :evil:
So I take a closer look....
Both sides are engraved U.S.A.! haha. interesting, right?!
Both sides are also stamped with '7'.
All steel construction (only brass pins) would make this late war production (I think) or possibly post war.
What do you guys think? Keeper?
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Thanks for looking.
-Jason


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Re: Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

Post by pjones » Wed May 11, 2016 12:30 pm

Jason,
FWIW Your PAL blade is marked exactly like those of mine stamped US ARMY. It is also of very similar construction and material. Some of these are faintly stamped and the US ARMY stamp could easily be worn away with use. Many ww2 era tools have USA engraved on them but that tradition may have continued well beyond ww2. Here are some photos of my collection for you to compare. I included a PAL TL 29 on top.... cause I like it. The 2 immediately below it are PAL and the last 2 are Kabar. There are distinct differences in the US ARMY stamp between the two.

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So maybe the US ARMY or TL 29 wore away or maybe it never had it. Still an interesting knife.

phil
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Re: Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

Post by pjones » Wed May 11, 2016 12:42 pm

Here's another PAL I have. There are no markings on the wood panels. The PAL marking is identical to yours but on the blade opposite side of the PAL is US ARMY. Its faint but you might look closely in that area on yours.

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Re: Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

Post by mudbox » Wed May 11, 2016 1:58 pm

:o
Dang, Phil... At least now I know why I can't seem to find one... :lol:
Anyway, thanks for the pics. They helped quite a bit for where to look. While I was re-inpecting the scales, I found the remnants of the US ARMY logo. Looks like it was there at one time, but now all that's left is the Y from ARMY.
HERE is a full size image.
Image
-Jason

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Re: Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

Post by d42jeep » Wed May 11, 2016 3:17 pm

Jason,
I can understand why the "Y" is visible. My Pal wasn't very evenly marked. The left side of the marking isn't deep at all. Here are some pictures
-Don
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Pal and Camillus
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image.jpeg
US ARMY marking
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Side without markings
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Re: Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

Post by pjones » Wed May 11, 2016 4:43 pm

Jason,
Outstanding! And in the same location as the "Y" on mine. No doubt about whether it's correct or not and an engraved USA as a bonus. Congrats.
Phil
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Re: Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

Post by mudbox » Thu May 12, 2016 4:36 am

d42jeep wrote:My Pal wasn't very evenly marked. The left side of the marking isn't deep at all.
Thanks Don. I think I remember seeing that and maybe another that was stamped lopsided. Could be what happened here.
pjones wrote:No doubt about whether it's correct or not and an engraved USA as a bonus. Congrats.
Thanks Phil. Maybe they engraved the U.S.A. on it because of the terrible stamping? We'll never know.
But, for $8 I took a shot and it looks like I came out on top for a change. :D
-Jason

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Re: Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

Post by Hartofoak » Thu May 12, 2016 8:35 am

Nice detective work from this very exclusive 41-K-370 clan (I'm not a member)!
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Re: Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

Post by lt.luke » Wed Apr 26, 2017 9:36 am

I bought a rough TL-29. Black scales that appear plastic, so it'll probably be post war. As I inspected closer, one of the blades has remnants of a "CENTER" marking. I'll try to take pics... anyone ever seen anything like this?

It is a Camillus, if that helps.

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Re: Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

Post by gpw_42 » Thu Apr 27, 2017 12:41 pm

mudbox wrote:
pjones wrote:No doubt about whether it's correct or not and an engraved USA as a bonus. Congrats.
Thanks Phil. Maybe they engraved the U.S.A. on it because of the terrible stamping? We'll never know.
But, for $8 I took a shot and it looks like I came out on top for a change. :D -Jason

Jason,

Congrats on a GREAT score! Those knives are rare...some day, some day...

If you want to make an effort to make the US ARM more visible, you can try putting boiled linseed oil on that scale (or both, really). Somehow, the BLO sometimes makes cartouches on rifles more visible, and that's essentially what this is. No guarantees...but it'll be good for the knife scale, regardless.

Pea green with envy,
Steve

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Re: Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

Post by mudbox » Fri Apr 28, 2017 5:13 am

lt.luke wrote:I bought a rough TL-29. Black scales that appear plastic, so it'll probably be post war. As I inspected closer, one of the blades has remnants of a "CENTER" marking. I'll try to take pics... anyone ever seen anything like this?

It is a Camillus, if that helps.
Hey Luke. Meant to respond earlier, but I couldn't find the post I was looking for. The composite scales are post war. Early war knives had some brass dividers in them I think, and then late war had no brass (but for the pins) like my example up top here.

Per usual, Wingnutt has done some fantastic research on the wartime 41-K-370 and posted it for us HERE. Took me a while to track it down.
gpw_42 wrote:Congrats on a GREAT score! Those knives are rare...some day, some day...

If you want to make an effort to make the US ARM more visible, you can try putting boiled linseed oil on that scale (or both, really). Somehow, the BLO sometimes makes cartouches on rifles more visible, and that's essentially what this is. No guarantees...but it'll be good for the knife scale, regardless.

Pea green with envy,
Steve
Thanks Steve. Looks like it was almost a full year ago that I won this knife off eBay. Ultimately, I could say that I would prefer a better marked example, but then I would be giving up the U.S.A. engraving and whatever history this knife has seen.
I hear you on the BLO and do use it regularly for both wood preserving and on plain steel to keep the rust at bay. Works great!

-Jason

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Re: Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

Post by gpw_42 » Sat Apr 29, 2017 3:22 am

mudbox wrote: Thanks Steve. Looks like it was almost a full year ago that I won this knife off eBay. Ultimately, I could say that I would prefer a better marked example, but then I would be giving up the U.S.A. engraving and whatever history this knife has seen.
I hear you on the BLO and do use it regularly for both wood preserving and on plain steel to keep the rust at bay. Works great!

-Jason
DOH! I (clearly) didn't check the date of the thread.

A friend thinks he may have a SECOND one of these knives, and I've been trying not to pester him about it...which is easier said than done! I recently picked up a "silver" shield marked TL-29 from the same source, but it was a little more expensive than yours. Still cheaper than a modern EDC folder, though; it'll make a good stand-in for my MVMTS (AND my small TL-29 collection) till I can score a legit 41-K-370.

Steve

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Re: Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:02 am

TL-29 marked Knives are also in the WWII Inventory as ELECTRICIANS KNIVES
Stock No. 6Q60229
(1)674130000
I have a WWII Box of NOS by Utica Cutlery-brown wood scales, gold TL-29 stamped. Lottsa brass in them.
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Re: Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

Post by Wingnutt » Sat Apr 29, 2017 4:52 pm

mudbox wrote:What do you guys think? Keeper?
At least until you find a 41-K-370. I'd be more wary of the "7" on the scale than the lack of a "U.S. ARMY" marking on the scale, because we really have no precedence for anything like a number or any other marking. I would also tend to think that if the "7" survived wear and tear so would the "U.S. ARMY" if it was there in the first place.

I had never seen this thread before!
Ben Dover wrote:TL-29 marked Knives are also in the WWII Inventory as ELECTRICIANS KNIVES
Stock No. 6Q60229
"WWII Inventory" is obviously an extremely broad and vague term, Ben. While a TL-29 is certainly an electrician's knife, TL-29 is strictly a Signal Corps designation, and 6Q60229 is strictly a Signal Corps stock number. No Ordnance Dept manual that I am aware of ever referenced either number to specify the electrician's knife for the GMTK or ay other ORD tool-set.
gpw_42 wrote:[ it'll make a good stand-in for my MVMTS till I can score a legit 41-K-370.
Depending on brand, I think the term “stand-in” could be selling your MVMTS short. The evidence I presented in my 41-K-370 thread (viewtopic.php?f=48&t=212773&start=30&hi ... %27s+knife) conclusively proves that Camillus was filling orders for 41-K-370 electricians knives to the QMC and other branches with the same knives that Camillus was making for the Signal Corps marked “TL-29”. And the knife with a badge on the scale in this 1942 NARA photograph of an unidentified mish-mash of tool-sets (viewtopic.php?f=48&t=279775) confirms it. If you have an early MVMTS, a Camillus TL-29 with the badge is valid, and maybe even preferable. It looks like when then the Ordnance Dept took over trucks and tools, they started buying electrician’s knives from PAL and Union (KA-BAR) marked “U.S. ARMY.”
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Re: Interesting 41-K-370 (TL-29) knife

Post by mudbox » Sat Apr 29, 2017 6:04 pm

Wingnutt wrote:At least until you find a 41-K-370. I'd be more wary of the "7" on the scale than the lack of a "U.S. ARMY" marking on the scale, because we really have no precedence for anything like a number or any other marking. I would also tend to think that if the "7" survived wear and tear so would the "U.S. ARMY" if it was there in the first place.
Seems like the U.S. ARMY was poorly stamped like one of the knives that Don posted upthread. The only surviving artifact is the 'Y' in ARMY show in THIS post. I feel like the '7' was a unit or mechanic designation, and the U.S.A. engraved on the bottom of both sides of the knife is proof positive of service. :?:
Wartime or post war... who knows. Do we know when they changed to the composite scales?
-Jason


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