General Preference Order E-6 12th June 1942

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General Preference Order E-6 12th June 1942

Post by Silly's MB » Mon Mar 21, 2016 6:43 am

We have discussed it briefly before but here it is in full with definitions.
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Re: General Preference Order E-6 12th June 1942

Post by Wingnutt » Wed Mar 23, 2016 3:48 pm

What are your thoughts on the late date of this General Preference E Order, Roger?

Here's what I'm thinking...

We know that the General Preference M Order M-21-a, which was signed on Dec 23, 1941, went into effect on January 1, 1942. It severely restricted the content of precious metals (chromium, molybdenum, vanadium, and nickel) in new steel production. A lot of the early research on the “Wartime Alloy Restrictions” thread (Pages 1-3) uncovered reports on meetings between industry, SAE, and the WPB right through the spring. I suppose it can be thought of as two sides of the same coin. If the M orders were governing what percentage of alloys couldn’t be put in to steel, the E-6 order was showing the alloys that could be put into steel, and it provided the allowable recipes (NE SAE series).

What’s neat is this E-6 Order bookends your earlier research neatly, Roger.

This page of an article you posted on pg 3 of the “W.A.R.” thread...

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… provided descriptions of the first two “New Emergency” steel recipes ever invented (in early 1942). Using AISI metallurgy charts, the recipes correlate to a 4000 series (Moly-Manganese) and an 8000 series triple alloy (Nickel-Chro-Moly), both of which are shown in Exhibit B of the E Order!

I’ve posted this plenty of times, but it also adds a colorful example of Exhibit B in practice.

For the uninitiated, Herbrand took its compliance with M Order M-21-a and this E-6 order to extreme with its forged-in SAE codes. This Herbrand 5929 wrench…

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…a 41-W-603 long DBE with 11/16 x 3/4 openings, was made with an AISI 1300 series Carbon-Manganese concoction, as shown in Exhibit B! AISI 1340 to be exact, which is .38% carbon, 1.6% manganese, and small parts sulfur, phosphorus, and silicon.

What’s interesting is that Herbrand also made AISI 8640, 8642, and 8742 tools, which are all low-content triple alloys (nickel, chrome, and moly) a little bit higher up the recipe stack than the 8000 through 8400 series triples announced in this E Order. I suspect they were invented in 1943, after this came out. And I suspect like the M orders, it probably had amendments.

While other Mfrgs used branding terms like HI-TENSILE (Armstrong), most settled for omething generic, such as ALLOY or ALLOY STEEL.

Lastly, someone needs to contact Frank Smith. This chart needs updating! :D

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Re: General Preference Order E-6 12th June 1942

Post by mudbox » Thu Mar 24, 2016 5:44 am

Wingnutt wrote:What’s interesting is that Herbrand also made AISI 8640, 8642, and 8742 tools, which are all low-content triple alloys (nickel, chrome, and moly) a little bit higher up the recipe stack than the 8000 through 8400 series triples announced in this E Order. I suspect they were invented in 1943, after this came out. And I suspect like the M orders, it probably had amendments.
The set of Herbrand ignition wrenches that I just put together has the three largest sized wrenches marked '8742' on the reverse. It's interesting that they appear to have a bright (but thin) plating to them.
Based on these documents and your assumptions [Wingnutt], 8742 alloys could have been around as early as 1943, correct? I'm not trying to hold you to anything, just making sure that I understand you correctly.
Here's a pic.
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Re: General Preference Order E-6 12th June 1942

Post by Silly's MB » Thu Mar 24, 2016 6:17 am

Greg,
I am not sure what happened to Frank, he just seemed to disappear :o

I have purchased a book titled 'History of the Tools Division WPB' which was published in 1949. It gives many clues as to titles of documents which makes researching a little easier but 'Mechanics Hand Tools' is only a very small part of the book.

Almost all Mechanics Hand Tool production went to the military initially, eventually after the limitation and priority orders the Armed Forces and Maritime Commission were having 70% of production,5% to export and 25% to Industry and General civilian use.

Were Chro-Mo wrenches given a high priority until June when some proper alternatives became available? I still have Herbrand wrenches with some strange markings such as V35 and HM as well as the more conventional 1340 and 9445. I have never come across a 5XXX.

You realise why their was a good reason for adding date codes to tools as it gives indication of the alloy used to the manufacturer in case of repeated breakages.
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Re: General Preference Order E-6 12th June 1942

Post by Wingnutt » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:02 am

Silly's MB wrote: I have purchased a book titled 'History of the Tools Division WPB' which was published in 1949.
Do you have the whole title, publisher, and year? I'd like to purchase it and that title is not coming up in a search.
Silly's MB wrote:Were Chro-Mo wrenches given a high priority until June when some proper alternatives became available?
Not that I know. Remember that all Mfgrs were still making SAE 1000 series (carbon) wrench lines (e.g., Williams Superior), and on May 15, 1942, in Amendment 2 to Order M-21-a, the WPB specifically allocated SAE 1000 steel to all orders below Priority A-10. So not only was it considered a viable alternative, but the WPB seemed to be saying ‘use this instead.’ The Moly content in Chro-Mo wrenches was actually under the limit. The Chromium was the issue. On March 27, 1942, in Order M-18-d, the WPB restricted all Chromium melting to orders of A-1-K or higher. From January 1 until then it had been A-10. On June 1, 1942, in Amendment 3 to Order M-21-a, the WPB added Nickel and Moly to the A-1-K or higher category. That same amendment allowed melting those alloys at priority A-3 or higher for “NE” steels (at that time, looks like SAE 1300 and 8000 series only), or stainless (SAE 400), or Si-Mn (9200). So it looks like the WPB was getting tougher at the same time it was finding alternatives. Hard to believe them slacking off on the Cr restriction (< .6%) in M-21-a for wrenches, or considering wrenches A-1-K or higher. I wouldn’t rule it out, but I'd want to see the exemption documented before I ruled it in.

Also, I still think there’s a very good possibility that Billings (M series Vitalloy Duo-Forged), Vlchek (ALLOY “W” series) and Bonney (Zenel) were already making low-Nickel-Chro-Moly triple alloys, and it looks like Bonney (based on some of the 1942 date codes we see on the new non-CV line) and many others saw the writing on the wall in late 1941 and started converting early.

I still wonder about the BHM’s. They made nickel-moly (SAE 46XX) wrenches in the 30’s. Those were too rich in nickel to be made during the war even if they wanted to. Their pre-war “ISN” wrenches (JAB has some nice examples) and wartime “ISN” wrenches (Fred’s posted on the SNL G540 thread) were almost identical except for markings. Pre war flip-side shank: ‘MOLYBDENUM-ALLOY.’ Wartime flip-side shank: ‘FORGED STEEL.’ SAE 40XX (“NE” alloy invented in 1942) and 44XX (not sure when it was invented) are both below the Moly limit (.6%). So I presume that the BHM pre-war Moly-Alloys were either higher in Moly, higher in something else (prob. Cr) or, possibly, below the limit, but BHM just didn’t want their wrenches stigmatized by the marking and changed it.
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Re: BHM molybdenum alloy wrenches

Post by lucakiki » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:36 am

Greg, I have had a few molybdenum alloy Master Quality wrenches which came from repacks. For sure I remember a 25 which I traded to a gee member.

I do not know whether they were prewar or early war time. For sure they predated the alloy steel ones, although last time I posted about it not everybody seemed to agree.


Edited because I found the picture!

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Re: General Preference Order E-6 12th June 1942

Post by Chuck Lutz » Thu Mar 24, 2016 9:34 am

Greg, Roger...

I have a "CHROME-MOLYBDENUM" marked face with a "1" on the shank and "2033B" on the other face. On the reverse it has "15/16" and "13/16" on the corresponding faces. Plain steel finish with polished faces...

I looked at the Frank Smith chart and did not see a "2000" series listing but AA does show an example. Got anything on that numbering scheme? Looks like a pre-war contract VLCHEK wrench I think.
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Re: General Preference Order E-6 12th June 1942

Post by Wingnutt » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:17 am

Chuck Lutz wrote:Greg, Roger...

I have a "CHROME-MOLYBDENUM" marked face with a "1" on the shank and "2033B" on the other face. On the reverse it has "15/16" and "13/16" on the corresponding faces. Plain steel finish with polished faces...

I looked at the Frank Smith chart and did not see a "2000" series listing but AA does show an example. Got anything on that numbering scheme? Looks like a pre-war contract VLCHEK wrench I think.
Looks like the "2033B" is a model number, Chuck. Given the sizes, it looks like 33B is the ISN. Vlchek did make a 2XXX (model number) series wrench line with large parabolic heads, where the model numbers embedded the ISN.

The numbers Herbrand forged into their wartime DOE wrenches were on the shank, not the faces where model numbers and sizes would be.

There is an AISI/SAE 2000 series steel, but it's very high in nickel and not used for tools.
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Re: BHM molybdenum alloy wrenches

Post by Wingnutt » Thu Mar 24, 2016 10:53 am

lucakiki wrote:I do not know whether they were prewar or early war time.
No way to know for sure. By "pre-war" I meant that the style of the wrench, as a line (i.e., BHM MQ with 'MOLYBDENUM-ALLOY' marking), was being produced before the war. "Wartime" wrenches, in my vernacular, were made during the war, in a composition and finish dictated by the war. I have a very broad definition of "wartime," though, depending on the subject. I've said this before, but the inclusive dates on the CPA War Supply Contracts books (beginning in June 1940!) had a profound impact on me, especially with respect to history. We were preparing for war, and in many ways (Naval operations in the Atlantic, Lend-Lease, etc) we were at war without it being official. Armstrong, Bonney, Crescent, Plomb and several other prominent tool makers all had contracts in early 1941. Bridgeport had a contract in September 1941. It's very possible those tools made it into service. It's obvious that some of them were re-packed in 1953, too. Molybdenum, as an entire material resource, was the last alloy allocated to defense control by the WPB, in December 1941. Your wrench very well could've been produced anytime between September and December 1941, before that took hold, and before the alloy content restrictions (.6% for Cr, Mo, and Ni, no V at all) were enacted in January 1942, or even early 1942 from blanks that had already been forged and sold to distributors selling to tool makers before the alloy restrictions took hold. On this subject, though, all these examples should be considered wartime as a special case; otherwise, some people might get confused, or worse, use the information to skew or challenge the entire picture. (Neither case describes you.)
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Re: General Preference Order E-6 12th June 1942

Post by Wingnutt » Thu Mar 24, 2016 11:31 am

mudbox wrote:The set of Herbrand ignition wrenches that I just put together has the three largest sized wrenches marked '8742' on the reverse. It's interesting that they appear to have a bright (but thin) plating to them.
Probably nickel. Probably in a transition period between 1945 and post-war production changes, if I had to guess. I have never run into any myself, but there are other examples out there. I have seen a dwarf DBE with an AISI 86XX mark with nickel plating somewhere. Probably AA.
mudbox wrote:Based on these documents and your assumptions [Wingnutt], 8742 alloys could have been around as early as 1943, correct?
Definitely correct. The evidence is overwhelming. Pre-war Herbrand was all VAN-CHROME with the fancy script logo. Wartime Herbrand dropped the VAN-CHROME branding (because vanadium was completely restricted and no longer in their steel) and also started using a simple block font HERBRAND on natural steel tools. And those are the tools that the AISI numbers start showing up on. And many different kinds of Herbrand tools with natural steel finishes were made with 8742 (indicating triple - Ni/Cr/Mo - alloy). There are exceptions. I had an S-10 ratchet with the VAN CHROME brand and an AISI 8742 number. Which doesn't make sense. Almost certainly an example of a wartime tool being stamped with an old die, probably in 1942 during transition.
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Re: General Preference Order E-6 12th June 1942

Post by JAB » Thu Mar 24, 2016 8:15 pm

Although somewhat difficult to follow and comprehend, this is an outstanding bit of work! Thank you all!! (Including the other similar threads!)

So, getting right to it; how do we put this new info into simple, practical terms? In other words, how do we use this information to determine "what wrenches/tools came/didn't come with "my" jeep"? We already know that my molybdenum BHM's "(JAB has some nice examples)" are pre-war, ruling them out, but do we have enough info to go much further forward than that right now? From what I understand so far, most of this new info substantiates (proves, actually) many of our more recent theories, but how do we use this new info to further separate the tools that go into a jeep toolkit from other old tools?

BTW Luca, I've never seen that style BHM with a chrome plated finish, always in black phosphate. Are they common?
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Re: General Preference Order E-6 12th June 1942

Post by Silly's MB » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:09 am

Greg,
'History of the Tools Division War Production Board' by Bradley Stoughton, 1949. My copy came from a Bookshop in France and had originally been in a library. I think I was the first person to ever read it :lol:

Here are all the amendments.
General Preference order E-6 amendments.jpg
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As Greg expected, the alloys were updated at regular intervals.


JAB,
I am not sure if this information really helps determine wrench types for Jeeps more than we have been able to before, it just helps to look at things in context.
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Re: General Preference Order E-6 12th June 1942

Post by Wingnutt » Fri Mar 25, 2016 6:23 am

Silly's MB wrote:'History of the Tools Division War Production Board' by Bradley Stoughton, 1949.
Thanks! And thanks for the amendments, too. I'd bet my next paycheck those included the 86XX and 87XX series.
JAB wrote:how do we put this new info into simple, practical terms? In other words, how do we use this information to determine "what wrenches/tools came/didn't come with "my" jeep"?
Silly's MB wrote:I am not sure if this information really helps determine wrench types for Jeeps more than we have been able to before, it just helps to look at things in context.
Jeff,
I agree with Roger. What the E-6 order, Exhibit B, and the reference to additional alloy series to Exhibit B does is give some credence to what was pieced together before on the "W.A.R" thread from 1941 and 1942 WPB bulletins, wartime Minerals Board reports, and the 1943 US Code book extracts, among other tidbits gathered there.

If you click here...

viewtopic.php?p=1365871#p1365871

...you'll find a series of charts (a Timeline of Alloy Restrictions, a Timeline of Metallurgy Changes in response to the restrictions, and a timeline of Wartime Wrenches). The Wrench timeline attempts to put what was learned about the WPB alloy restrictions and the emergent "NE" alloys into perspective with period DOE wrench manufacturing. While they may also need a little tweaking, in general, they are fairly accurate. As such, they can be used to answer your questions - what to look for and what to avoid.

A minor note that ALL steel vehicle toolkit tools (e.g., pliers, crescent wrenches) were also affected by the restrictions, but their identification (typically based almost exclusively on other constructions features and markings) does not hinge on composition as much as DOE wrenches, because steel composition was not as big a part of their branding scheme as it was with DOE wrenches. You will see CARBON or ALLOY markings on screwdriver shanks, but not the perfect handle types, and I've never seen a pre-war shank marked with a precious metal.

Ironically, it's actually a blessing in disguise that most tool makers made such a big deal out of their precious metal steel content before the war. If they hadn’t, if they had all used more generic (ALLOY, FORGED, etc) markings, it would be harder to identify the wartime wrenches without date codes.
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Re: General Preference Order E-6 12th June 1942

Post by Wingnutt » Fri Mar 25, 2016 7:19 am

JAB wrote:BTW Luca, I've never seen that style BHM with a chrome plated finish, always in black phosphate.
This is VERY interesting, Jeff. I did not know that your BHM MQ MOLYBDENUM-ALLOY wrenches had a black phosphate finish. If you or others have said that before, I missed it. I thought they were either dark steel or black enamelled.

I don't think I've ever seen black phosphate as a pre-war commercial finish. Cadmium was used, well before the war, for economy line tools. The fact that cadmium was one of several alternative wartime finishes when nickel- and chrome-plating was restricted was a carryover from commercial practices. But I don't think I've ever seen the term 'black phosphate' or even 'phosphate' in a pre-war catalog. I know that black oxide does not pre-date the war. One of Roger's other amazing research finds, also linked somewhere on the "W.A.R." thread, was to wartime issues of STEEL magazine, an industry periodical. I read all the wartime issues. I'd have to go back and find the date reference, but one of them indicates that black oxide was invented during the war in direct response to the plating restrictions. And phosphate finishes are usually used to date a tool (Snap-On "E" and "G" tools are great examples) to wartime.

Note again that the molybdenum content in SAE 41XX (Chrome-Moly steel) wrenches was NOT the problem. At .4% it was under the .6% limit. The chromium content (.8%) was the problem. The "NE" triple alloys all bring the chrome and the moly content down by adding nickel.

Again, BHM leading their branding with MOLYBDENUM rather than chrome (as Vlchek, Williams, and so many other mfrg's did) is important. It almost certainly indicates that Molybdenum (not Chromium) was the main ingredient.

Again, BHM was making Nickel-Molybdenum wrenches in the 1930's...(here is a nickel-plated DBE example.... last wrench)

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While there is a remote possibility that MOLYBDENUM-ALLOY was a triple alloy - moly-nickel-chrome, note that the 86XX and 87XX alloys usually lead with nickel, and BHM shows a patter of leading their branding with the main ingredient. Nickel-Moly (early 30's) to Moly-Alloy (late 30's 40's, possibly wartime).

Again, as I noted above, MOLY-ALLOY could be a Moly-Manganese (SAE 40XX), which, again, per the steel article above was one of the "NE" steels, and called out in Exhibit B of the E-6 order.

Bottom line, Jeff, is that your observation of black phosphate makes me lean harder that way.

Perhaps we have the BHM MQ timeline wrong.

Perhaps the BHM MQ MOLY-ALLOY in chrome-plate is pre-war..., the BHM MQ MOLY-ALLOY in black phosphate is early war..., and the BHM MQ FORGED STEEL (with a different composition, probably triple alloy), is solid wartime.

Fred - if you're reading this... what is the finish on your BHM MQ FORGED STEEL wrenches?
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Re: General Preference Order E-6 12th June 1942

Post by JAB » Fri Mar 25, 2016 12:56 pm

Wingnutt wrote:
JAB wrote:...This is VERY interesting, Jeff. I did not know that your BHM MQ MOLYBDENUM-ALLOY wrenches had a black phosphate finish. If you or others have said that before, I missed it. I thought they were either dark steel or black enamelled. ....................Fred - if you're reading this... what is the finish on your BHM MQ FORGED STEEL wrenches?
I should clarify immediately. With one exception that I re-discovered last night while re-checking things due to this new info, all my MQ/BHM wrenches are indeed black. I assume it's phosphate, it's not enamel, but I have to admit that it could be a black colored alloy of some sort that I never gave a thought to. The metal has the appearance of being that color, rather than a coating or finish. Many of my MQ wrenches are in cosmoline and wrapped, so I can't be sure, but all the clean ones, with the one exception, are black, but somewhat shiny, unlike phosphate. Does that change things?

BTW, I'm embarrassed to admit, the one exception is a chrome colored 1731A, but it doesn't look plated, rather having the appearance of being silver in color, a silver colored metal. I forgot I had it because I knew it wasn't likely to be a tool kit wrench so it was kept in a separate place.
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