Opinions wanted on 2 screwdrivers

[Silly's MB]

I picked these 2 11" screwdrivers up yesterday and was keen to have some opinions.

The cross head is a 6"blade made by Stanley and has a hexagon for placing a spanner on.
It is marked Stanley, H1824, Crosspoint.

Would this be suitable for a GMTK ?

IMG_2864 copy.jpg (126.05 KiB) Viewed 445 times

IMG_2865 copy.jpg (126.17 KiB) Viewed 445 times

The Perfect Pattern is 11 1/4" with a 6" blade and is marked with a 6 in a circle/oblong on the top of the blade.
Does anybody recognize the style. Of course it may be English or from another country.

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[Chuck Lutz]

Look for a mfger name next to the "6" on the slot-head screwdriver....or a mark on the blade tip.

[Silly's MB]

I can find no other markings, I can only guess that it may have been ink stamped on the handle originally. Every other Screwdriver I have has some other marking on it.

[Wingnutt]

Personally, I wouldn't be happy with the second with no mfgr marking. On the Stanley #2 cross-recess, I think you're okay on the mfgr based on two things: the valid wartime supplier rationale, and the fact that it was the late John Barton who validated Stanley as a wartime supplier. (Full admission - I have a pair of matching Stanley #3 and #2 cross-recess in my GMTK, with the same PHILLIPS patent numbers as Vlchek or BHM etc, marked on the shank in the same way, at least until I can find better. I also have a Vlchek #3 and the two screwdrivers are IDENTICAL.) I don't know about that hex on the shank though. The spec doesn't call for it and the photo doesn't show it. That would give me some pause.

[Silly's MB]

It is a shame about the hexagon grip as it is the part that puts me off.

[Silly's MB]

I have looked at the RAPD picture again and it does seem to show something at the top of the shank before the handle. It does look rather hexagonal. (Figure D)

Any thoughts ?

[Wingnutt]

Well I'll be darn. Now that you've pointed it out, Silly, I have to say that your Stanley is the finest spottest on example of a 41-S-1640 that I've seen.

[lt.luke]

It may be my imagination, but that Stanley looks a whole lot like a Reed-Prince to me instead of a Philips. (the difference is a 45 degree cut on the Ph vs a 90 degree on the R/P). Even in the RAPD, the angle of the tip looks different between figure D and the other "Cross Tips".

The actual photo of Silly's screwdriver seemed worn to me until the RAPD was posted, and they match, leading me solidly enough to this conclusion that I posted it. I thought it was worn or a R/P when he first posted the photo the other day.

I could be wrong.

As for the 6" perfect handle, I can't recall seeing one around here with that particular detail "6 symbol". According to the WO drawing and some other sources, there are a couple of manufacturers noted as acceptable, of which examples have not shown up yet. I wonder if this is a "Missing Link"?

You have Irwin with no "6 symbol", the Barber Pole marked on shank (can't remember), the Torbin with a "6 triangle" symbol. I know I'm missing some, Lennox and FairmounT are mentioned suppliers, with FairmounT being discussed lately as potentially being contracted by another manufacturer. Help out guys, is my memory not good and we've seen this "6 oval" symbol before, or is it "new"?

If it's "new" we should discuss it?

[Mark Tombleson]

'Cross recess type screwdriver'



The difference...



Frearson started somewhere in the late 1930s and Phillips in the mid 1930s.

My understand is that Phillips targeted the automotive industry while Frearson the marine hardware market.

http://www.instructables.com/id/When-a- ... -Frearson/

[Silly's MB]

Some interesting points.
I had never heard of the Reed-Prince design. The RAPD description for both crosshead screwdrivers is the same though, "Cross Recess Head" it is only the size that is different. Unless the length dictates the type of head?
I can take a close up of the tip with a macro lens which may give a better idea as to the shape.

I think this design of this Perfect Pattern 6" is closer to the Willys drawing than the Irwin which is more commonly associated with the Jeep.

[Wingnutt]

That's why I mentioned the Phillips patent number on the shank being important. (The Dec 43 TM and the July 45 ORD actually call out "Phillips type" by name, in addition to "cross recess." The July 44 ORD just says "cross recess" but we can assume Phillips.) I have Bridgeports, Stanleys and Vlcheks and they all have it. You shuold see if you can look Stanley Crosspoint up in a catalog or something to see if it was Phillips or not.

[Silly's MB]

I think its a Phillips.

[Silly's MB]

Just to put this to bed once and for all now I have seen a correct Phillips number 3.
Wingnut was correct when he said...........
[quoteThat's why I mentioned the Phillips patent number on the shank being important. (The Dec 43 TM and the July 45 ORD actually call out "Phillips type" by name, in addition to "cross recess." The July 44 ORD just says "cross recess" but we can assume Phillips.) I have Bridgeports, Stanleys and Vlcheks and they all have it. You shuold see if you can look Stanley Crosspoint up in a catalog or something to see if it was Phillips or not.][/quote]

I have never found any real reference to Stanley Crosspoint ,it may have been a pre 1936 idea before Phillips came along. Stanley were the first company to be given a Phillips licence i.e LIC1 as shown on the shaft with the patent numbers. Vlchek has LIC6 and Bridgport has LIC7 again with Patent numbers. Apparently by 1940 85% of Screwdriver manufacturers had a Licence.

The shaft is nearer 3/8" and the point is not a Phillips although I don't think its a Frearson either unless its broken off (which is quite possible).The hexagonal section though is correct although not a necessity.

It was probably obvious to you experienced tool collectors but I have learned something.