McKaig Hatch 11" adjustable

[Alasdair Brass]

Hi Chuck,
When I first bought a set of Durochrome wrenches, they were regarded as incorrect. Never mind, they were a nice set and I didn't have even one of any other make. In time, Gilmore came out with the information that they were an option for Ford and could be considered correct.

McKaig Hatch were a supplier to Ford, pre and post war. They also supplied the crank handle and lug nut wrench and possibly pliers on many GPW's during the war, so they were definately a wartime supplier. Maybe there is no proof they supplied 11" adjustables but proof may well come up one day and I'm happy to wait. I do have other options in my collection but the MH looks and matches nicely.

I cannot recall where, one of the parts books I think but the 8" adjustable is referred to as a "Crescent". What more do you want? Crescent was a very popular maker of such adjustable wrenches, probably the best known and how "Crescent" became the generic term for any such adjustable wrench. They also made "CTC" pliers which seem to be regarded as correct so why would anyone think the supply of adjustable wrenches was beyond such a well known manufacturer?

Luca, I just knew my 11" MH wrench wouldn't suit everyone but, as I said, I am happy to wait until it is approved !! It seems to me that MH were a "highly likely" vehicular tool supplier to Ford during the war.

Regards
Al

[lucakiki]

Al, as you know I have an MB, and tools are a bit easier to discuss for a Willys.
However, I like to assemble toolkits also for Fords, just for the hell of it and not only.
As an example, even without owning a Ford, when the Moore 12" story came out, I had to have one, immediately.
Although Master Quality BHM have been pooh poohed by some, they share in my opinion (and not only) the same degree of plausibility of DCs: that is why I assembled a set using a BHM 11" adjustable, which does perfectly pass the Hub socket test, traditional version.
No, no evidence whatsoever, and I never claimed to have any, but it does have more or less the same kind of appeal and plausibility of the Mc Kaigh.
Besides, as reminded, also the Moore 12" had its share of criticism, although we all ( well, almost all!) know that it is a very good choice.
That is why I can sell my Master Quality set with a matching BHM adjustable or, if so wished, with a Moore 12".
Difference? A non negligible number of dollars!

[Chuck Lutz]

Not to split hairs, but Gilmore posted that Barcalo/Bridgeport/Duro were listed in the G8T Ford 1 1/2 Ton truck ORD 9 G-540 parts manual.

As such they were to be considered a "Ford supplier" and he went on to say that the GP tool pictures he has show WILLIAMS wrenches.

So to put it bluntly, Ford bought wrenches from Williams for the GP and from Barcalo/Bridgeport/Duro for the G8T 1 1/2 ton truck. Prior to the Bizel kit all those had about the same pedigree: purchased by Ford for WWII vehicles.

Now we have the Bizel kit with No-ISN marked Barcalos which gives that style the best pedigree so far, and in second place are the Williams as they are at least in a jeep (GP) and about even are the Bridgeport/Duro wrenches as they were in the G8T manual.

Aside from the mfger, the style, finish, markings, etc. need to be period-correct of course!

As to the 8" Adj. wrench.....the Crescent Tool Company, among many others, makes them....all wrenches of this design are referred to as "crescent wrenches".....the Ford Packing List in AAW calls for the following:
GP-17023 Wrench-Adj.- crescent-8"

In this instance they are calling for a wrench of the crescent type, not a Crescent Tool Company 8" Wrench.....style, not mfger!
Right above that they call for the following:

GP-17021-Wrench-Adj.-auto type-11"


In this instance they are calling for a wrench of the "auto-type" not one made by the Auto-Type Company....again, the style, not the mfger! If you look at the Ford Packing list...you will note they do not call for ANY item from a specific MFGER....not by company name.

[Alasdair Brass]

As to the 8" Adj. wrench.....the Crescent Tool Company, among many others, makes them....all wrenches of this design are referred to as "crescent wrenches".....the Ford Packing List in AAW calls for the following:
GP-17023 Wrench-Adj.- crescent-8"

In this instance they are calling for a wrench of the crescent type, not a Crescent Tool Company 8" Wrench.....style, not mfger!
Right above that they call for the following:.

My point exactly, if a manufacturer has made enough quantity to coin the generic description, they would certainly be a volume producer and likely Govt supplier.
One day the proof might surface.

Al

[Chuck Lutz]

I have a few Crescent Tool Company crescent wrenches myself....on the tool bench for daily use and in the tool stash. Perhaps they will be vetted as a government supplier and thus correct for a "motorpool tool kit" application. On the other hand, with the government handing out tool contracts, even a company like Crescent might have been granted contracts for something besides crescent wrenches....we just don't know.

Finding a couple of them...with a plated finish and with a bare steel or parkerized finish would be good candidates.

[Alasdair Brass]

Hi Chuck,
I have no idea what you have in your tool kit but I would say to include one of your old chrome Crescents if you don't have anything else. The correct early style Crescent has much broader jaws and slightly wider handle than the later chrome types. It is finished in phosphate black, a finish specified by the supply contract. See attached pics.

Regards
Al

[Chuck Lutz]

That's funny Al, I happen to have picked up one of those black phosphated Crescent Tool Company 8" Adj. EXACTLY like the one you posted a pick of some time ago for EXACTLY the same reasons!

Being as how they were cheap, I grabbed a BARCALO BUFFALO (unplated), a UTICA TOOLS ALLOY STEEL (unplated), a DANIELSON (unplated) and two slightly different WILLIAMS (unplated) just to give me some options as the choices are not completely nailed down it appears.

I also have some doubts as to when the use of chrome plating was discontinued, when cadmium plating was introduced (and if it was) and when the black phosphated finish or even the plain finish was introduced.

I have a 4/42 and a 4/43 GPW so the changes in finishes are a problem for those jeeps.

My tool and spares kits are designed to be correct for ANY GPW, so things like the 8" Adj. that was discontinued are still in the kit. Other issues as to when the different tool changes happened like the Drain Plug Wrench or the SPW or the different GG adapters can only be solved by getting ALL of them and so far, I have a complete tool kit except for a WO lug wrench as a place holder in lieu of a GPW one but I don't have the stepped DPW, just the box one. No tire chains however but I have the repop bags if they show up! The Spares Kit is missing the Service Stop cardboard box and has a replacement BO Lamp box (Paulie) and an AN-7 instead of a QM-2 in it. The rest is all there.

I have a ROUND ball Fairmount hammer but would prefer a pointed ball one....MH and Barcalo pliers, IRWIN-USA Screwdriver, Fairmount 11" Adj., No-ISN Barcalos (and some Williams) wrenches, Ford Hub Wrench, Ford DPW, Ford Brake Bleeder, Ford SPW, Bristol Wrench, Fire Hose Nozzle Type I GG adapter (and Type II and Type III), Schrader QMC and ORD gauge, 5585 GG (wire and bakelite handle), Spun Steel Jack.

I wish you had said something about TOOLS at Tower Park....I had a hammer handle you could have taken home with you.

[lucakiki]

Al, I have not much information on which, over the by now famous and widely accepted Moore 12", is to be considered correct or at least acceptable with reserve for a GPW tool kit.
Here is a picture including two Crescent brand adjustables. What do you think?

[Alasdair Brass]

Hi Luca,
That all looks pretty nice to me. I too have an 11" Auto that I have replaced with the McK H. I reckon the nice thing about tools is that you can start with a set that is near enough and then, bit-by-bit, improve the collection. Your 8" seems to be a little different to mine. Notice mine is not branded "Crescent" but "Manufactured by the Crescent Tool Co". I am not sure what that means but is likely to have changed at a certain point in time.

Regards
Al

[lucakiki]

Al, here is the other side of the same 11" auto type adjustable in the previous picture.



Mind you, I am not saying it is correct, but just plausible. As you said, Cee Tee Co pliers are usually accepted, so there is a connection.
Some prefer a Fairmount 11", and I wonder which are the bases for their choice.
I remember Sam Kimpton stating that he had seen Fairmount wrenches packed singularly with a Ford label, but I ignore whether he was talking of open end wrenches or adjustables...

[Chuck Lutz]

I have been looking to find the documentation that supports the claim 'CeeTee pliers are usually accepted" but can't seem to find it, can you point out some DOCUMENTATION not some opinion on that conjecture?

GOV'T TOOL PURCHASE 1.jpg (191.83 KiB) Viewed 673 times

GOV'T TOOL PURCHASE 2.jpg (207.44 KiB) Viewed 673 times

GOV'T TOOL PURCHASE 3.jpg (197.4 KiB) Viewed 673 times

Maybe Cee Tee did sell to the gov't but most would prefer the documentation....I think trying to say that a Crescent Tool Company 11" Adj. is correct for even a motorpool tool kit by saying that "Cee Tee pliers are usually accepted" is baloney. One theory used as documentation to support another theory? Uh, no....not really....

Did you even catch Al's mention that the 8" Adj, he has says "MFD BY CRESCENT TOOL COMPANY" and is not like the one you posted a pic of which has just CRESCENT on it?

By the way, Sam Kimpton mentioned the Ford connection to an open-end wrench, not an 11" Adj. For my tool kit I have two Billings & Spencers with different fonts for the "G", a couple Fairmount and some others....I would add a MOORE if I tripped over one in the driveway with the Bizal kit photos and other data we now have.

[lucakiki]

They also made "CTC" pliers which seem to be regarded as correct so why would anyone think the supply of adjustable wrenches was beyond such a well known manufacturer?


Al

Al, I agreed with you and really the unpolite reference to baloney is not worth of any comment.
Since I usually read, more than once, what the other guys write I did obviously catch your note on the different marking on the shank, and took due note.Thank you.
I think I will check on alloy-artifacts, in case there is some clue.

As for the Fairmount made 11" adjustable for GPW, I still ignore the reasons why some consider it GPW correct, just as for Billing and Spencer.
No, the abrasive attitudes still do not impress me one bit,and I will not get down to the same level: hopefully the moderation will appreciate.
Speaking of my " Williams" toolkit I am not bound to the Crescent choice: I have a couple of nice Moore 12" adjustables, although I did not trip over them in the driveway. As a matter of fact I used dollars, without caring too much for the required amount: the compulsive buyer in me at work!
In other words, prodigality beats sour grapes at least in my book.

[Alasdair Brass]

Hi Chuck,
What is this documentation, where did you find it and is it a definative record of who supplied what during WW2 ?

Regards
Al

[lucakiki]

Al, have a look here!

viewtopic.php?f=48&t=183148&p=1062824#p1062824

Brian had sent me that ages ago. When I happened to mention Armstrong as one of the major government tool suppliers,basing myself on that information,no prize for guessing made a big fuss suggesting, in a tool forum, that I might be talking "Paint contracts"...
Baloney comes to my mind!

[Chuck Lutz]

Again....can you post the reference where Crescent Tool Company sold pliers (chrome plated, cad plated, plain steel or blackened steel) to either Ford, Willys, any other mfger or even the government for spares? I would be more than happy to discover the piles of them in everyones' Wish Drawer are good for SOMETHING (motorpool kit?). I don't see them on your list of suppliers....unless their contract was under $50,000, right?

I do have a problem as most will, with the "guilt by association" attempt in your post....the reference to Cee Tee pliers as "usually accepted" that sequed right into..."well if Cee Tee pliers are acceptable, then the 11" Adj. must/might be also". Sorry....that isn't going to cut it.

Let's go back the the Stone Age of the tool forum where we discovered many catagories like these:
Too early
Too late
Wrong finish
Wrong markings
No evidence of a Ford/Willys contract
No evidence of a gov't contract
(all kept in the WRONG Drawer)

and...

Period correct but no verification (kept in the Wish Drawer)
Period correct, evidence they were purchased for some vehicle OTHER than a GPW or MB (Kept in the POSSIBLE Drawer)
Pictures shown in factory kits (Kept in the 99.99% Drawer)
Actual factory kits found with them (Kept in the 100% Drawer)

As we build a kit and keep replacing the lesser thought of tools for the better verified ones, we make a more correct factory kit. Right now, the Crescent Tool Company stuff is in the Wish Drawer....but was in MY kit until I learned more found a few better examples to make the kit better using better vetted examples. I still have a WO lug wrench in my kit as I believe having the correct MB part is better than a WRONG lug wrench or none at all. When I find a real GPW/Ford one, that will be what I carry.