Frame rivets sizes and tool rental near Cleveland Ohio?

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Frame rivets sizes and tool rental near Cleveland Ohio?

Post by WWIIFIREARMS » Sun Apr 09, 2006 1:01 pm

I am about to install an inner frame rail on my gpw.
I plan to order rivets from http://www.bigflatsrivet.com/steel_rivets.html.

I have a few questions:

1. What sizes? I gather they are 5/16 and 3/8, but what length?

2. Are they considered “round” or “Brazier” head?

3. I see you can buy a hydraulic rivet squeezer on ebay, but at $1000+ I’ll have to use the ol’ hot rivet and air hammer approach, unless one can be rented. Any idea where to rent one?

4. I also need Huck rivet sizes as well as a place to buy them and rent a puller near cleveland Ohio.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
wwiifirearms


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Ed Campion
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Post by Ed Campion » Mon Apr 10, 2006 12:25 pm

Hi WWIIFIREARMS,
The answer to your first question is that the regular rivets are a round head type, and the length is the thickness of all the materials plus 1.5 X the diameter of the rivet. You should be able to form a decent head on the work side of the rivet by using this formula. You will probably be wise to order longer rivets and cut them to the desired length for each application but be sure not to introduce too much heat into the rivet while cutting them down. I will post pictures after work.

I don't have the Huck information in front of me but if memory serves, it was something like BOM-4, BOM-6, BOM-8. I would have to confirm that when I get home tonight but these numbers relate to the Huck 'Blind Oversize Mechanical' fasteners, or Huck-BOMs, etc. and are a specific length and width. They go in like a heavy-duty Pop Rivet but because the stud gets sheared off after the puller reaches maximum travel, the length is not an issue.

Good luck, Ed. :wink:
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Post by Ed Campion » Mon Apr 10, 2006 6:41 pm

Hi again WWIIFA,
Image
Here is a picture of the snap (piece used to buck the rivet down) and the square bar stock used to hold the rivet while cutting it to length, I used a band saw for the actual cut - the hack saw blade is used to demonstrate how the rivet would be cut. I made a couple of slits at predetermined locations to get the various lengths that were needed. I can't find the pictures of the bucking bar that I made to fit inside the frame, it's still packed away from our move.
Image
These are the part numbers for the Huck rivets
Image
This is the Huck rivet puller, it was an electric over hydraulic tool (standard house utility power 115 volt). After the rivet is pulled, the stud snaps off and is discharged out the back end
Image
Before and after the pulling process
Image
Huck rivets installed in the right side engine mounting bracket
Image
I think overall there were some 24 Huck rivets needed to put my frame back together

The huck rivets were the easier ones to install, I wish that they were all Hucks....
Cheers, Ed.
Ed Campion
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WWIIFIREARMS
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Frame rivets Huck puller rental

Post by WWIIFIREARMS » Wed Apr 12, 2006 6:32 pm

Thanks for all the info, this will certainly help.
Any suggestions on locating a place to buy the huck rivets, and rent the puller?

-wwiifirearms

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Post by Ed Campion » Wed Apr 12, 2006 7:12 pm

Hi WWIIfirearms,
I bought my Huck rivets locally in Edmonton Alberta at a company called AccuFast, they sell all sorts of fasteners (not nuts & bolt) - many of them for the aviation industry. I was lucky enough to rent the puller from them for about $50.00Can. for the day but it actually took less than 20 minutes to install all of them. You may want to do a search to see who is a local distributor of Huck rivets, and maybe they can also rent a puller to you. Good luck, Ed.
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Still can't find a Huck puller

Post by WWIIFIREARMS » Tue Jul 25, 2006 12:08 pm

Just thought I would post an update.
I still can't find any place near Cleveland Ohio to rent a Huck rivet puller.

I even got a list companies that distribute the pullers from the manufacturer. None have returned my calls.

I may have to drive up to see Ed in Canada so I can rent the one he found. ;-)

-wwiifrearms

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Post by Ed Campion » Wed Jul 26, 2006 10:41 am

Bummer :(
I'm sorry to hear that. You may have already covered this ground but have you talked to anyone in the aviation overhaul or truck repair industries yet? Both Huck rivets & button head rivets are old technology and are still in wide use today. Good luck. Ed.
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Post by Yinger » Wed Jul 26, 2006 11:26 am

I spoke with a guy a little over a year ago who had a puller to rent. It's just the gun (does not need a seperate power unit) which can be shipped UPS. The cost was $40 per day and a $2500 deposit. He told me all needed was an air compressor with at least 100 psi and 11-12 CFM. Of course I only have (1) 5/16" rivet to pull. I just bought a new Ingersoll Rand compressor and am more than positive it can handle the job.

If you want to contact this guy his name is John Knauss at OK Fasteners his telephone number is 618-667-9983. I was given his name by the Alcoa (Huck) representative. I guess OK buys a lot of Huck fasteners for military applications.
John M. Yingling

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Post by Ogstad » Wed Jul 26, 2006 12:00 pm

Take a look at any Wilson Trailer Livestock trailer they use hucks all over them when manufacturing them.
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Re: Frame rivets sizes and tool rental near Cleveland Ohio?

Post by Old Pal » Fri Sep 19, 2014 7:50 pm

Are most of the bom rivets 3/8"with the 5/16" being primarily for the front cross member?

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Re: Frame rivets sizes and tool rental near Cleveland Ohio?

Post by Ed Campion » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:07 am

I apologize for the late reply Old Pal,
The Huck rivets that I used were all the same diameter, even on the from cross member (BOM R-12 which I think was 3/8") and then it was just the length that varied and it was determined by the layers of metal that I was fastening together.

I seem to have misplaced my restoration notes over the past couple of years....

Best regards, Ed.
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Re: Frame rivets sizes and tool rental near Cleveland Ohio?

Post by warbrds » Thu Oct 23, 2014 9:31 am

Hi

Head out to the local airport and find an aircraft mechanic, one that works airframe repairs, etc

He would most likely have the tools to shoot the rivets and also pull the huck bolts

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Re: Frame rivets sizes and tool rental near Cleveland Ohio?

Post by Old Pal » Thu Oct 23, 2014 12:08 pm

I got the sizes figure out and the correct lengths. I have already gone the aircraft mechanic route with no luck. I rented a Huck gun from OK Fasteners in Missouri.

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Re: Frame rivets sizes and tool rental near Cleveland Ohio?

Post by Old Pal » Tue Dec 06, 2016 1:11 pm

Old Pal wrote:I rented a Huck gun from OK Fasteners in Missouri.
I ended up changing a shackle bracket from a reproduction to an original (I may be paying a bit too much attention to detail). I had to remove two Huck rivets to do this. I figured I would rent from OK Fasteners again. My experience was not as it was two years ago. Originally, I was charged $60/day plus shipping, transit time was not included. This ended up being approximately $100 to install all of my Hucks. This go around, I was going to be charged for $60/day for transit time too. Ground shipping would be 4-5 days each way from the Midwest to California, second day air would be $121/ each way. You do the math. For two rivets no less.

Maybe it's just me, but this doesn't seem reasonable. What if it was delayed for weather or took a few extra days because of the holiday season? I don't think I'll be doing business with OK Fasteners.

I could only find one other company willing to rent a Huck gun. I contacted Byler Rivet in Texas. They were willing to rent the gun, however, I had to buy the tool up front at $3800 and they would refund the cost of the tool once returned minus shipping and a daily rental of $100/day, and they do not include transit time. So, once returned, I'm out $100/day that I actually use the tool, plus shipping.

What a pain in the neck for two Huck rivets. My advice is to avoid having to take your frame apart unless absolutely necessary; not to mention the hot rivets. That's a story for another time.

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Re: Frame rivets sizes and tool rental near Cleveland Ohio?

Post by TROYWILCOXSON » Fri Mar 22, 2019 5:01 am

Anyone have a good source for rivets?

thank you
Regards

Troy Wilcoxson
USN LT retired


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