Handbrake handle/tube differenes. Willys/Ford or Early/late?

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Ian Fawbert
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Handbrake handle/tube differenes. Willys/Ford or Early/late?

Post by Ian Fawbert » Sun Feb 12, 2006 9:08 pm

Hi all,
Few questions based on 2 original handbrake tubes i have. By tube i am refering to the part with the ratchet in it so it can grab into the bracket under the dash.

Reason i ask is one tube i have has a solid core- ie; a piece of round stock inside the outer tube casing with the rathcets cut into it. It (the outer tube) is stamped with the word FORD in script at the cable end and has f stamped clips and a PBR? stamping with number on the square piece at the tube end of the cable. It has no handle though.

The second tube i have is hollow. it has no inner core and its ability to ratched somes from the pressings in the tube itself. The attatchment method for the cable into the tube is different to that of the known ford one. It has no stampings. It does however have a F marked handle, though i think it could have been a replacement handle fitted to this tube, evidenced by filing marks around where the pin should be/is.

Both tubes i am fairly certain are original ww2 partws. (well the ford i`m 100% but the other hollow type i am only 99.9%).

Can someone help me out on this? What i want to know is:

Is there a difference between a willys and ford style of tube?

If not, is there an early/late style of ford tube?

Finally, can someone please post/email me a picture of what the original pin attatching the handle to the tube should look like. mine currently looks like a nail!


Thanks,
Ian.
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Post by Buster » Mon Feb 13, 2006 7:04 pm

Ian,
I do not have the definative answer but can offer the following based on my 8-"42 GPW.
The handle was "f" marked
The ratchet cuts were impressed in the tube as in your second example.
No "F" marks on the tube
The flattened end of the cable (with hole for attachment at brake) was "F"stamped
The cable clips were all "F" stamped
And finally.....my handle actually had a finish nail in it! Looks like about a 6 penny would duplicate a NOS nail. :D
Believe the correct attachment was a rivet tho.
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Post by Ian Fawbert » Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:45 pm

Thanks Buster.

I was wondering if what i have with the F marked handle on it is correct for an early gpw, but i really do not know. My gut on the other hand tells me to change over the handle, find a suitable rivet (i thought it should be a rivet too!) and go with the ford one.

I would really like to hear some other peoples experiences/knowledge on this.

Come one guys, we all have handbrakes! (or do we!) its not hard to go check!


The dataplates are coming too mate. i spoke to the guy a few weeks ago and there had been a mess up with the artwork. i dont know how you could mess it up, but there had been one! will kep you posted. and sorry for the delay!


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John 63
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Post by John 63 » Tue Feb 14, 2006 5:40 am

I think the handles were actually held on with drive pins/screws like the ones used to hold data plates on the generator and regulator, only bigger. Two were used, pressed in from either side.

I'll check out the one I have at home tonight.
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Post by Donovan » Tue Feb 14, 2006 7:35 am

Hi all,

John is correct. I just took my handbrake handle apart and it was held on by two drive pins similar to the Data Plates rivets. My rachet tube appeared to be one piece with the rachets ground into the tube. Also I was surpised to find out that the cable could not be removed from the rachet piece as the eyelet was larger than the tube...meaning the eyelet (or the other end) had to be put on after the cable was put in the rachet tube.

For what it is worth,

Donovan.
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Post by Mark Tombleson » Tue Feb 14, 2006 2:48 pm

Here is the one on my MB, Ian, but I'm not sure it helps you GPW guys. :)

Image

That is correct on the drive screws:
WO-51904 Screw, rd. hd.,S., br-plted., type "U", No. 6 (.138) x 5/16 (handle to tube), Quantity - 2
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Post by Alasdair Brass » Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:32 pm

Hi Ian,
The PBR number tells me the part is Australian and a replacement part I would say.

Regards
Al
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Post by Ian Fawbert » Tue Feb 14, 2006 9:45 pm

John and Donovan, thankyou very much for that info. That helpos alot! looks like i`ll have to go for a trip to the nut and bolt place!

Mark, thanks for that. It might be my eyes, but does yours have a solid inner tube? What is it like around the indents for the ratcheting? It looks as if it has a sort of hole on each indent?

Al, i knew i had seen pbr somewhere before but couldnt place it- what do you think now about this statement?

While i am not 110%, the indents in the tube for the ratchet to click into appear crudely cut. What would be your (and anyone elses) thoughts that the inner cable was replaced and at the same time a piece of round stock inserted and the ratchet indents cut into it?

Because i have never seen another known ford or willys tube, i cannot say for sure what i have is right or wrong (only the outer tube of the ford i am sure is right), but hopefully someone will let me know from the pics.

Heres is a few pics of what i have. Maybe it will help you out!

What i think is the willys type.
Image

What i think is the ford type.
Image
Image

So what do you think. Is it a botchy home made job on the 'ford style', or is it original? Is the tell tale sign the fact that i can see the square shank for the eyelet of the cable out of the end, the PBR number and also the crude/dodgy cuts?

Is the way the willys/empty tube style one has its sheath inside the tube the correct way?

Thanks a heap guys!
Ian.

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Post by Bill M » Wed Feb 15, 2006 2:18 am

G'day Ian, here are some pics of a hand brake cable I have aside for my GPW. It is NOS but did not come packaged, it has not had a handle on it and has no F marks that I can see.The wire wrap on the cable outer in picture 2 identifies it as GPW.The ratchet tube appears to be just tube with no inner portion.
Image
Image
Image
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Post by Alasdair Brass » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:36 am

Hi Ian,
Now that I see the pics, the cable is certainly a PBR part. The handle has been removed and the cable has obviously been replaced with a PBR made one at some time. I see what you are talking about with the ratchet notch cuts. I have seen the same thing before, maybe on not as many notches, but the same. It lloks to me as if a blunt fly-cutter was used and the machine just forced it's way through. The Ford mark is nice.

Regards
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Post by Ian Fawbert » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:10 pm

Thanks Al and Bill.

Bill, i`ve saved those pics :D so i know what i am looking for now. It was good to see a proper ford type. If you see a spare one in your travels, please let me know!

Al!
Thanks for the clarification on that. I guess for the moment i`ll go with what i have got until i find a correct one. Its alot easier to use than fixing the rust etc in other style (which from what everyone has been saying about their type, seems to be correct).

I have seen a fare few jeeps and air filter brackets with a piece of 1/4 stock welded on with a series of holes drilled into it. I beleive this was an australian army mod to help with the handbrake. I wonder if what i have was done at the same time by the oz army... who knows! I must see if i can get a hold of a copy of the australian army jeep mods folder that i know a guy has, that would be interesting reading! and yes, the ford script is a nice touch!

Anyway, i guess this is another question solved. Thank you all very much!

Cheers,
Ian
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Re: Handbrake handle/tube differenes. Willys/Ford or Early/l

Post by lowbonnet » Thu Sep 29, 2016 12:37 am

Where the heck has the posted images go... now this post is almost useless...
June 1942 Ford GPW (script)
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Re: Handbrake handle/tube differenes. Willys/Ford or Early/l

Post by Ian Fawbert » Thu Sep 29, 2016 2:30 am

Australian Jeep Investigator
MB: 131175
GPW: 11730.
GPW: 225290.
Aust trailer: GMH 3- #211
http://www.vintageengines.net

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Re: Handbrake handle/tube differenes. Willys/Ford or Early/l

Post by lowbonnet » Thu Sep 29, 2016 3:14 am

Thank Ian,

Let's see if I can show them by linking to the image:

Markings on cable and the letters Ford
Image

Solid tube Ford
Image

Empty tube
Image

Yes :)

Ian, does the brake handle of your early GPW has the drive pin?
June 1942 Ford GPW (script)
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Re: Handbrake handle/tube differenes. Willys/Ford or Early/l

Post by Ian Fawbert » Tue Oct 04, 2016 2:30 am

Hi Peter,

Thanks for adding them back in.

Yes, mine has drive pins. I saw your post regarding the NOS handle. I found it very strange why it wouldnt be drilled- all i could think of is it either missed being drilled or might be one of those (to us very useable with some work) NOS parts which was faulty/rejected yet still was sold surplus and has made it into the hands of collectors 70+ years later.

I believe the drive pin is a #6 size (from SNL G503 if i recall correctly).

Cheers,
Ian.
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MB: 131175
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GPW: 225290.
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