Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Thunderbird712 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 12:19 pm

I have some questions and some observations regarding Bond Strap #7 (starter motor bracket to generator to front engine plate) for a Suppression II jeep. How do we know that the cable attaches to the front engine plate? Is the Willys factory drawing available for the strap? Any factory photos, wartime photos, or possible unmolested jeeps with the strap attached to the front engine plate? Anything I found in previous threads always uses the hand drawings that come with Paolo Batisti’s bond strap kit ( which I have as well as his book about the bond straps) to show its installation. I’m not trying to knock his stuff but I have found a difference with his strap and my originals.

On my 45MB front engine plate the hole for the bond strap is for a 3/8 bolt. A 3/8 bolt is what was called out for Bond Strap #11 (front engine plate to engine support bracket) on a Suppression I jeep so the hole size was not changed. The reproduction kit I have has a 3/8 bolt hole on the strap end to attach to the front engine plate. However the original from my 45 and another original I have has a hole for a 5/16 bolt. A 3/8 bolt will not fit and a 5/16 bolt in the front engine plate has a lot of wiggle room. The factory picture and the crated motor picture below do not have the strap connected to the front engine plate. Why would it not be? Would it get in the way during installation? Additionally why would they design and produce a new bond strap for the Suppression II jeeps with a 5/16 bolt hole for attaching to a 3/8 bolt hole on the front engine plate? Why not make it a 3/8 hole like the other end of the strap? On my jeep the strap was looped around to the 5/16 starter bolt as seen below. My 45 was fairly unmolested as it was owned by a FD from 46 to when we purchased it. I’m not saying this is proof of anything. I just can’t use how my jeep to help determine one way or another.

Now I was pointed to the Ford factory drawing that was just recently released.

https://www.thehenryford.org/collection ... ct/430171/

It shows a 5/16 hole on the plate end. Now look at the drawing name. It is Bond Strap - Gen to Starter Motor Bracket to Engine support bracket. In the SNL the Engine Support bracket is listed under the Section 1500- Frame and Brackets. For Ford they are labeled as Bracket, engine support, front left or front right. The Front engine plate is listed as Plate, engine, front, assembly. Would the drawing description not match the SNL description? Asking on the Facebook G503 page I had someone who has an unmolested early 45 GPW state his bond strap goes to the front engine plate. This is Ford specific information but could apply to Willys as well. That’s why I ask for the information above.

If anyone has original straps what size hole is on the strap end? I could very well be thinking way too much into this. Please poke holes in my thinking. I am not hard and fast on one way or another. There are just a few things that don’t make sense to me.

My original Bond Strap
Image

Original vs. Reproduction
Image

How my 45MB was unrestored
Image

Crated motor with end not hooked up to the front engine plate
Image

Factory picture showing the strap not attached
Image
TJ Zackman
1945 Willys MB, 430923, 3/28/45
Scored 98.375% at 2019 MVPA Convention York, PA

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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Farrell Fox » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:02 pm

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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Thunderbird712 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 6:36 pm

Farrell,

Thanks for the reply! That is the first I’ve heard it going there. I’m curious how you determined that.

I looked at a few more pictures and saw this(surface zero is giving me issues on my phone). You can clearly see the strap going down toward the frame engine support bracket. Now you can’t determine if it’s bolted to anything. Could be out of the way until the shield is installed.

http://www.surfacezero.com/g503/showpho ... 3d&cat=500
TJ Zackman
1945 Willys MB, 430923, 3/28/45
Scored 98.375% at 2019 MVPA Convention York, PA

1953 M38A1, 69248, 12/53, 20999713
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Farrell Fox » Tue Jan 09, 2018 7:06 pm

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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Thunderbird712 » Tue Jan 09, 2018 8:16 pm

That’s an interesting illustration. What manual is that from. I am lacking in the manual department. Whether that is the mount or the shield it certainly isn’t the front plate. The picture I posted in my last reply and that illustration seem to agree. If the manual isn’t wrong. Now the only location that uses a 5/16 bolt in that area is the insulator(motor mount) bolts. As expect more questions are arising then answers! I’ll have to keep researching it. Maybe something will come up. Now to figure out where to look.

His drawing supplied with the reproduction kit and in his book on the topic has it to the front plate. I will have to try and contact him. I haven’t had very good luck in the past though.

Thank you as always!
TJ Zackman
1945 Willys MB, 430923, 3/28/45
Scored 98.375% at 2019 MVPA Convention York, PA

1953 M38A1, 69248, 12/53, 20999713
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Farrell Fox » Wed Jan 10, 2018 7:09 am

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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Thunderbird712 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:50 am

So I was looking through the Ford drawings that were released and came across another drawing for the Bond straps. The drawing applies to 6 bond straps for a Suppression I jeep (some do carry over to Suppression II jeeps). What I found interesting are the descriptions. GPW-18874 (Bond Strap #11)states Front Engine plate to frame. This is for the bond strap on the drivers side. Where I am going with this is if the Bond strap #7 (GPW-18840) gen to starter bracket to engine support bracket were to go to the front engine plate would the drawing not state Front engine plate? Either the drawing for GPW-18840 is incorrectly labeled or the drawing is correct and the correct nomenclature had been used throughout. This could prove that the strap does indeed go to the engine support bracket on the frame. Now where exactly can be determined by the bolt hole size on the strap. The only 5/16 bolt on the engine support bracket is for the insulators (motor mount).

I only bring this up because I wanted to find some type of evidence that Ford didn't call the Front engine plate an engine support bracket as shown in the drawing for the strap in question. Yes this is Ford and not Willys but I am not aware of any differences for the suppression systems between the two.

Now that I am on a computer here is the picture I posted above with a link. It looks to me that the strap goes down near the motor mount.
Image

Engineering drawing for Bond Strap #11 (GPW-18874) showing the descriptions described above
Image


Bond Strap #7 (GPW-18840) Engineering drawing
Image
TJ Zackman
1945 Willys MB, 430923, 3/28/45
Scored 98.375% at 2019 MVPA Convention York, PA

1953 M38A1, 69248, 12/53, 20999713
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by m3bobby » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:09 pm

If it helps at all, 6008 has a tinned hole on the underside of the right engine mount where I assumed the bond strap fitted.
Ford GPW 6008, in slow process of restoration.

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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Thunderbird712 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 12:24 pm

Would you be able to Post a picture or if it’s easier email a picture to me at tjzackman1@gmail.com
TJ Zackman
1945 Willys MB, 430923, 3/28/45
Scored 98.375% at 2019 MVPA Convention York, PA

1953 M38A1, 69248, 12/53, 20999713
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Farrell Fox » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:10 pm

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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Thunderbird712 » Wed Jan 10, 2018 1:50 pm

That is Bond Strap #11 (as listed in the SNL) that was for the Suppression I jeeps. That was from the front engine plate to the mount. The SNL also lists 3/8 bolts for that strap. That was eliminated when Bond #7 was lengthen to include the end in question. In the factory picture it looks to me that it is attached to the generator bolt and not the front plate. I think the date on the photo was 1 Jan 44 which would make it a Suppression II jeep. It’s hard to get the resolution on the photo here to see it. I saw it in my phone. So why would they then length the strap and make the end 5/16?
TJ Zackman
1945 Willys MB, 430923, 3/28/45
Scored 98.375% at 2019 MVPA Convention York, PA

1953 M38A1, 69248, 12/53, 20999713
MVPA# 37298

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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Bill M » Wed Jan 10, 2018 9:07 pm

Here is a photo of a GPW frame on the line with James O'Connor, Foreman of Final Assembly Line at Ford Rouge Plant.Dated June 29 1943.
It shows the first suppression type that is mentioned in earlier posts. I think the bond strap is attached to the front of the plate and bolted to the engine mount. I found this photo a few years ago while searching the online database at the henryford.org.

Image

Image
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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Farrell Fox » Wed Jan 10, 2018 11:07 pm

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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Thunderbird712 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 2:58 am

There is no questioning where that strap went. I’m trying to figure out where Strap #7 attaches to since it was lengthen to eliminate that earlier strap on Suppression II jeeps. If it were to go to either one of the holes that the earlier strap went to why would the new strap be designed with a 5/16 hole?
TJ Zackman
1945 Willys MB, 430923, 3/28/45
Scored 98.375% at 2019 MVPA Convention York, PA

1953 M38A1, 69248, 12/53, 20999713
MVPA# 37298

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Re: Does Bond Strap #7 really attach to the front engine plate?

Post by Thunderbird712 » Thu Jan 11, 2018 3:13 am

Darcy,

I just checked out your Blog and saw the entry you made today. Attaching it to the insulator (motor mount) is exactly what I was thinking. That is the only picture I’ve seen it attached there. With that picture, the engineering drawings and the bolt hole size on original straps I think it might be ok to say going to the front plate is wrong. That explains why my original strap would have so much OD on it as you can see in my first post. Getting overspray on it there would be easier then under the generator. Whether the paint is factory or a repaint before it was surplused in 46. I’m still going to look for more proof just to be safe. Thank you for sharing!

TJ
TJ Zackman
1945 Willys MB, 430923, 3/28/45
Scored 98.375% at 2019 MVPA Convention York, PA

1953 M38A1, 69248, 12/53, 20999713
MVPA# 37298


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