Flooded engine?

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
Schelvis
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:19 pm
Location: Belgium

Flooded engine?

Post by Schelvis » Sun Dec 10, 2017 10:22 am

Hello gentlemen,

I just got my GPW engine rebuilt and after a couple of hours of running, I decided that it was wise to replace the oil.

Following the oil change instructions on G503, I let the engine warm up to make it easier to drain the oil. The engine was running like a little Swiss clock, so I didni't expect any problems in that department.

After replacing the oil and the oil filter. The engine started and ran like normal. Unfortunately the seal of the oil filter housing was not installed correctly. So after a while the oil pressure builds up and I notices that the filter housing was leaking: oil spills everywhere. I shut down the engine and corrected the seal problem. But now the problem is that the engine will not start!

The first thought was that some splashes of oil got in the distributor or in the coil because the engine turns but it seemed that there was no ignition. I removed the distributor cap and a visual inspection did not show any oil spills in the distributor.
I removed a spark plug to see if there was a spark. And yes, the spark plug seems to work. So I guess no problem with the coil either.

Could it be that with all those attempts to start the engine, the carb got flooded?

It is really cold weather over here and with all that starting I drained my battery (6V). It is recharging now but it is difficult to get some sleep. I can not stop thinking on what is wrong with the engine. I really hope that I did not damage anything on this freshly rebuilt engine. :?

Any idea's? Could it just be a flooded engine?

Thanks!


User avatar
artificer
banned
Posts: 13558
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:46 am
Location: SINGAPORE

Re: Flooded engine?

Post by artificer » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:58 am

You can't have done any engine damage, so sleep EZ.
Nothing has really changed except the oil spill that most have experienced once in their lifetime, with these type oil filters.

If you have washed all the excess oil off the engine it is likely although you seem to have a spark the spark is being shorted somewhere.
This spark loss may contribute to what you say might be flooding.

Clean all up, wait until tomorrow & give it another try, would be my suggestion.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

User avatar
Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 26829
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Jeep Heaven

Re: Flooded engine?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:59 am

That's a pretty good guess...so put the battery charger on overnight then tomorrow try starting with a little choke and see if she catches.
Do NOT tear into anything if the jeep was running OK prior to the oil change. Odds are she's flooded as you suspect. Sometimes in our haste to fire it back up we can forget the simple things like turning the ignition switch to ON and by the time we have fiddled around with everything we may turn it back ON but by then it's flooded.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

Mark Jesic
G-Brigadier General
G-Brigadier General
Posts: 2473
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:56 am
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Flooded engine?

Post by Mark Jesic » Sun Dec 10, 2017 12:45 pm

Been there and done that guys. When my oil filter decided to paiht my engine, it went mainly over my Generator. After cleaning everything up, i noticed i was no longer getting a charge. To cut a long story short i ended up having the Generator rewound. Costly, but worthwhile.

User avatar
twinflyer17
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1347
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:49 am
Location: Washington, D.C.

Re: Flooded engine?

Post by twinflyer17 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:25 am

Been there done that :shock: Although this was because the oil line wasn't properly seated in the filter housing itself...I didn't have any issues with starting after cleaning the mess up, though. Definitely try what the others have mentioned, but don't worry about issues with the engine itself.

Image
Sean

GPW 108175 viewtopic.php?t=267732
DOD 4/14/43 Louisville, KY USA20371070

MVPA
AOPA

dinof
G-Major General
G-Major General
Posts: 2860
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2010 4:32 pm
Location: Arcadia & Johannesburg Ca.

Re: Flooded engine?

Post by dinof » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:39 am

Just had to change the gasket on my filter top because out of nowhere, I noticed a dribble of oil starting to come out. Why after changing it a year ago?
Who the hell knows. It was in my garage warming up so it did not become that horrible mess that I have also experience in the past.

I would not attempt to start the jeep with the choke on. I would turn the motor over about 2 times to see if its still flooded. Only then if it didn't start, I would then choke it. And then only a few seconds.
Dino Falabrino
On the "G" since 1998.
1943 GPW 102310 DOD 3-3-43
1928 Model A Roadster Pickup
1930 Model A Tudor
1968 Taco Minibike

User avatar
artificer
banned
Posts: 13558
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:46 am
Location: SINGAPORE

Re: Flooded engine?

Post by artificer » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:35 am

OP wrote:It is really cold weather over here
Very unlikely this vehicle will start without extra fuel.
Assuming the Jeep is flooded could be incorrect or if it is flooded/flooding establishing why.
Always look for & totally eliminate ignition [spark loss] first.
Poor ignition or loss will cause all the symptoms enunciated including possible flooding.
The OP did tell us he had spark somewhere but not how intense or where he got the spark so that is where I am right now.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

User avatar
Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 26829
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Jeep Heaven

Re: Flooded engine?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Dec 11, 2017 9:59 am

Lets review....
1) jeep was successfully started and ran....check!
2) jeep ran "like a little Swiss clock"....check!
3) oil leak discovered on filter.....check!
4) jeep would not start...check!
5) spark to the plugs indicates wiring is not likely....check!
6) tried to start jeep several times unsuccessfully....Check!

My dear old Dad used to come downstairs when I was having a problem with my '57 Chevy....he always asked me "What was the last thing you were messing with?" as we all know that is always #1 on the list of why something is wrong. In this instance it isn't but since the distributor/advance/wiring was not "messed with" and you have spark I would not make any of that the #1 issue here, so don't go there first!

On the other hand, sometimes the most obvious issue is in fact the actual issue at hand and in this instance you tried to start it several times with no luck which will most often result in flooding the engine no matter WHAT the reason it won't start up.

So....start with the Simple, Easy, Obvious, Inexpensive, no-brainer here and as I said, let the jeep sit overnight to evaporate the fuel and charge the battery and I would be pretty certain you will be able to start 'er up in the morning.

Report back on the simple solution here FIRST.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

Schelvis
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Sergeant Major of the Gee
Posts: 258
Joined: Thu Mar 10, 2016 11:19 pm
Location: Belgium

Re: Flooded engine?

Post by Schelvis » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:37 am

Thanks guys for all the encouragements and advice!

The attempt to start the jeep today was, unfortunately, not successful. :(

At some moments it seemed that the engine would start but nothing. Just some puffs and that is was.

I checked all the spark plugs and they were soaking wet. There is a spark but, as a non-mechanic, I can not see the difference between a good spark and a bad one. I can see and smell fuel on the outside of the carburettor but I am not sure where it comes from.

At the end of the day, the battery died again and that was also the end of the attempts for this day. I think I will wait now for a 3 or 4 days so all the fuel can evaporate.

The only thing, besides a bad case of a flooded engine is that there is something wrong with the distributor. Maybe I misaligned the distributor cap (180°) after opening it to check if there were oil spills in it...

User avatar
twinflyer17
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1347
Joined: Thu Sep 12, 2013 11:49 am
Location: Washington, D.C.

Re: Flooded engine?

Post by twinflyer17 » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:48 am

Schelvis wrote:
Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:37 am
The only thing, besides a bad case of a flooded engine is that there is something wrong with the distributor. Maybe I misaligned the distributor cap (180°) after opening it to check if there were oil spills in it...
That could be. I'd get your manual out to confirm the location and order of each wire and trace your wires to the distributor cap to ensure it's on correctly.
Sean

GPW 108175 viewtopic.php?t=267732
DOD 4/14/43 Louisville, KY USA20371070

MVPA
AOPA

User avatar
artificer
banned
Posts: 13558
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:46 am
Location: SINGAPORE

Re: Flooded engine?

Post by artificer » Mon Dec 11, 2017 11:57 am

Spark should be bright white to blue. If red or a puny orange then starting will not be brilliant.

It is nearly impossible to put the cap on wrong as there is a detent tab to ensure the cap is right.
Just as there is a similar type tab on the rotor button to ensure it is correctly located

Many distributor caps have a little spring loaded carbon contact to run/make contact on the centre of the rotor button.
Make sure it is there & not lost.

Flooding [after running really well previously] more often than not is caused by a stuck or incorrectly seating needle @ the inlet to the carburettor.

A couple of raps with the plastic handle of a screw driver around the fuel to carb inlet area may be the answer.
OP wrote:I checked all the spark plugs and they were soaking wet.
WET plugs will short & not fire. They must be totally dried out to start.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

Bruce W
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1684
Joined: Thu Mar 13, 2003 4:45 pm
Location: Northeast Colorado

Re: Flooded engine?

Post by Bruce W » Mon Dec 11, 2017 5:30 pm

If you suspect a flooded engine (with experience you'll be able to tell by the sound of it), push the choke completely in and hold the gas pedal to the floor, and crank until it starts. Do not pump the pedal, do not let it up, do not choke, do not stop after a few seconds of cranking. When it starts, hold the pedal down until it cleans out and starts to rev. This is part of the knowledge needed to operate a vehicle with a carburetor, hand choke or automatic. Even the early fuel injection systems had a "clear flood" mode that was activated by holding the gas pedal down. Maybe they still do. BW
G Trp 2nd Sqdrn 3d Armored Cavalry Ft. Lewis 1970-71. 43GPW(Sarge?) 47CJ2A(Teddy) 47CJ2A(Rusty) 47CJ2A(Zak) 48CJ2A(Lefty) 48CJ2A(Uncle Linden) 53CJ3B(Bulldog) 88XJ(Pluto) NE CO

Mark Jesic
G-Brigadier General
G-Brigadier General
Posts: 2473
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2016 4:56 am
Location: Birmingham, England

Re: Flooded engine?

Post by Mark Jesic » Tue Dec 12, 2017 2:26 am

Would it be worth a try with the starting handle ? Mind the kick though.

Joe Gopan
Jeep Heaven
Posts: 49841
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: Flooded engine?

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Dec 12, 2017 6:50 am

The plugs may be wet, remove and dry with air gun or a torch.
Also, there is an old trick that was shown me years ago. Take a soft lead pencil and rub the point right on the ends of the electrodes, if you are careful the graphite deposit will concentrate the spark enough to fire off the engine. It does work.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

User avatar
Chuck Lutz
Gee Addict
Posts: 26829
Joined: Wed Jun 28, 2006 7:00 am
Location: Jeep Heaven

Re: Flooded engine?

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Dec 12, 2017 9:02 am

1) he didn't touch the spark plug wires, he changed the filter gasket
2) he didn't touch the distributor, he changed the filter gasket
3) he didn't touch the coil/wires, he changed the filter gasket
4) he didn't touch the carburetor, he changed the filter gasket (but artificer's suggestion to give the bowl/bowl cover a whack with a plastic screwdriver won't hurt!)

The engine is still flooding....which begs the question about who and when the carb was rebuilt, if it was, as artificer's suggestion may hint at the possibility that it is a coincidence that you have a carb that is flooding the engine and preventing it from starting.

What carb do you have on it?
When was it rebuilt and by whom?
Was the tank cleaned prior to the rebuild?
Were the gas lines blown clean?
Is there a firewall filter or a cheapo in-line plastic filter or ???

I'm coming around to artificer's hint of a carb problem occuring now also....this jeep is a recent rebuild so there does not seem to be long enough of a run time to eliminate much that can happen when a rebuild comes together.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947


Post Reply

Return to “MB GPW Technical Knowledge Base”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: 44kubel, maurywhurt, MB210581 and 68 guests