Using ( burning ) oil

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Using ( burning ) oil

Post by adeet » Mon Nov 06, 2017 6:57 am

1943 willys mb engine is showing visible signs ( black smoke when engine is revving at a stand still or pulling away from traffic lights ) of oil consumption, but you can hear a drumming noise that fades and comes back every 30 seconds or so as you are travelling along from around rear of engine / bulkhead area that I guess is the oil pick up in the sump ? Is this a definite sign or is the rumble / drumming noise something else? What should be my plan of action ? Remove head disconnect pistons fron crank and draw up from the top and inspect pistons / rings ? All thoughts very welcome ( I am a totally novice mechanic) apologies for my lack of knowledge but hey that's what your here for . Cheers


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Re: Using ( burning ) oil

Post by dpcd67 » Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:12 am

Your engine needs rebuilt. Drumming is a worn bearing. Maybe.
Get and read the engine TM until you have it memorized.
Once they start smoking they usually need everything.
Do a compression test and see what that tells you; it will be low.
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Re: Using ( burning ) oil

Post by artificer » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:50 pm

I agree with Luc....do not start pulling anything apart, do a dry, then wet compression test or alternatively a leakdown test.

Black smoke is indicative of fuel.

Check oil for smell of fuel dilution or rising oil level & that may be related to the noise alluded to.

When was the oil changed & what grade?
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Re: Using ( burning ) oil

Post by Joe Gopan » Mon Nov 06, 2017 2:56 pm

How many miles on the engine? Jeeps can start using oil at 30,000 miles depending on how they are cared for or driven.
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Re: Using ( burning ) oil

Post by adeet » Mon Nov 20, 2017 9:34 am

25.000 miles showing on the clock of which I've done approx 8000 , has always used oil that has gradually increased over the years . I've owned the jeep for 8 years . I've been meaning to get around to sorting this problem out for some time now and having done wet and dry test showing 100psi across all cylinders with the exception of #4 showing 90 psi with a 5 psi increase on wet test . My mistake it's definitely blueish smoke indicating oil . When oil level is topped up to the max mark there is no noise but with distance and oil biurning / consumption the drumming nose gradually becomes noticeable as described. What should my next step be ? Head off pistons out ?? Will I have to remove Engine or can I fix this problem with Engine in place as I'm lacking in workshop area to do major work. Chees

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Re: Using ( burning ) oil

Post by YLG80 » Tue Nov 21, 2017 10:59 pm

When oil level is topped up to the max mark there is no noise
Before pulling everything apart, check if your oil pressure is flickering when the noise comes up.
It could be a clogged oil pickup float that could defuse the oil pump and produce noise.
Years ago I had that problem with another car engine.
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Re: Using ( burning ) oil

Post by artificer » Wed Nov 22, 2017 12:34 am

Yves has a very good suggestion but also....
Questions asked earlier have not been answered plus topping up oil is not CHANGING OIL but diluting what could be an instrumental element in this issue.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
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Re: Using ( burning ) oil

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Nov 22, 2017 9:34 am

The definition of engine having new rings and bearings is considered a rebuild with the expectation of thousands of miles of new performance. Ring jobs do not last as many miles as an engine reconditioned to new mechanical spec. Was your engine overhauled at some point?
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Re: Using ( burning ) oil

Post by adeet » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:44 am

Yes the Engine was overhauled possibly 15 to 20 years ago by previous owner who restored the jeep . Exact details of this restoration are vague / unknown to me though I have tried to make contact with the previous owner bearing in mind it's almost a decade since I bought the jeep . So far I've started stripping the top down to inspect pistons and valves. Many thanks for all suggestions and advise and I will keep you posted as to how this progresses
Last edited by adeet on Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:54 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Using ( burning ) oil

Post by adeet » Thu Nov 23, 2017 11:50 am

Yves . Will def check oil pick up thanks

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Re: Using ( burning ) oil

Post by artificer » Thu Nov 23, 2017 12:18 pm

Pulling a low compression engine apart with claimed 100 psi compression pressures?
It is possible to have good compression with a/or broken ring/s & poor or incorrectly fitted oil control rings don't alter compression drastically. This may account for burning oil.

Checking with a vacuum gauge prior to getting inside there would have been prudent. Then @ least one would have known what they were presumably looking for.

While there & underneath check the con rods are fitted correctly & centred on the piston pin [if not there may be grooves in the cylinder wall/s].
The piston T slots are toward the camshaft & the oil squirt holes are away from the camshaft toward the engine's major thrust side.

Noises are very hard to spell out! You may have piston slap especially if the T slot is incorrectly fitted toward the major thrust side [thump], noisy timing chain [rattle], big end [machine gun on ac/deceleration] etc.

If you are pulling pistons you will need a ring ridge remover if you can feel a ridge with your fingernail.
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TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Using ( burning ) oil

Post by adeet » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:38 am

Ok thanks for the replies ( all taken on board ) As for the noise it is not there when oil level is at max , so as the Engine uses oil then you can hear the drumming / drone that fades and comes back every 20 or 30 seconds as you travel along at 40 mph . And if you take your foot off the gas then the noise fades away ? Reapply and then you get the drone type of noise again . But only when oil level is dropping !!

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Re: Using ( burning ) oil

Post by artificer » Fri Nov 24, 2017 8:57 am

OP & others....avoid misinformation

Engines, no matter what valve configuration, are routinely deglazed & re-ringed, when cylinder bore wear is within limits.
No properly trained, experienced mechanic would not use this ring ridge removal tool, in these circumstances.

The link below is an explanation of why a ring ridge remover needs be used even before pulling pistons [unless they are able to be extracted through the bottom] otherwise the piston & ring lands can be damaged & in extreme cases the con rod bent/twisted from bashing out.

After the new rings are fitted & gapped @ the bottom [unworn portion] of their respective bores, they are fitted to their pistons then side & back clearance is checked, then the gaps are staggered on the piston.

Even slight ridge wear is a rounded fillet shape whereas new top rings are square.
If not removed this ridge will cause the new top ring to break on startup & one will have an immediate oil burner.

One can get a loaner tool from the likes of Auto Zone.
https://www.freeasestudyguides.com/ridg ... block.html
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Using ( burning ) oil

Post by dpcd67 » Fri Nov 24, 2017 9:13 am

Yes, one of the best running engines I have is a 251 Dodge that I overhauled in 1991; not rebored. Didn't have money for a full rebuild then. I went to the RIA auto shop and used a ridge reamer to remove the ridge and it had a nice one; I would not do that now. Honed out the bores. Put standard rings and bearings back in; darn thing runs like a top; I no longer do that but it just shows that it can work.
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Re: Using ( burning ) oil

Post by Joe Gopan » Fri Nov 24, 2017 10:13 am

It can work but for less miles than new or total rebuild to new spec. Once the taper gets over 0.009" in a Jeep. a ring job is not long lasting.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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