A few quick steering knuckles questions.

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
User avatar
Boyso
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

A few quick steering knuckles questions.

Post by Boyso » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:15 am

Are the knuckle seal bolts torqued down to a specific ft/lbs? I soaked the felt in oil (and made a mess). Did I torqued mine too much, the seal seems wavy.

Also there's a slight groove in the spindle. Is there a minimum diameter spec? Couldn't find anything in my manual. I'm guessing either speedi-sleeve it, have it brazed and machine or replace.

Lastly, one of the stud holes in my left hand side knuckle is oversized, threads are 7/16NF20. Unfortunately I seem to have misplaced the said stud (as well as 2 others). Should I try to find a suitable stud or fix the hole somehow either by helicoil or maybe welding and re-drilling/tap (guess not since machined surface)

Image
Image
Image

Thanks :)
44 GPW 231738 10/23/1944
MVPA #36162


Joe Gopan
Jeep Heaven
Posts: 49841
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: A few quick steering knuckles questions.

Post by Joe Gopan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:32 am

What you have are the 915664 Late Spicer Wiper Kit. The felt is installed dry with a diagonal cut at the flat edge at the top. What is important is to install the plate with the rubber seal carefully and the two stamped steel retainer halves carefully so that the but joints do not overlap. I would not torque them as the retainer plates may distort, just snug the bolts firmly/ That bad thread requires an oversize hole in the bearing cap. I can measure a NOS Spindle later on tonite.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

User avatar
Boyso
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: A few quick steering knuckles questions.

Post by Boyso » Sun Mar 26, 2017 8:44 am

Yeah I'll mesure the spindle as well to make sure.

Not sure what you mean about the diagonal cut. Is it something that's on it already to tell which way to install it or something I should do? Bought them from Ron.

also the steel retainers do not overlap but are probably tightened too much as you said.

For the oversized hole, it's already oversized and tapped (7/16 NF20). I'll try to find a proper stud for it

Here's a view from the other side. (Incorrect nuts on the studs, swap them after I coated them with a bit of anti-seize this morning)
Image
44 GPW 231738 10/23/1944
MVPA #36162

Ralph
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1649
Joined: Mon Jul 09, 2007 2:17 pm
Location: Florence,Kentucky
Contact:

Re: A few quick steering knuckles questions.

Post by Ralph » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:05 am

It looks like there is still meat on the spindle's bearing surfaces...best to measure I guess.
The wiper retainer bolts seem to strip easily, so easy there...does Ron's kit call for lock washers for those? Couldn't for sure see in your pic.External tooth were used on the original retainers,his kit could differ...
Ralph

Joe Gopan
Jeep Heaven
Posts: 49841
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: A few quick steering knuckles questions.

Post by Joe Gopan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:09 am

If the Wiper Kits are those supplied by Spicer, they will be supplied with new bolts that have a washer made to them.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

User avatar
Boyso
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: A few quick steering knuckles questions.

Post by Boyso » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:27 am

I re-used the nuts I had with a lock washer as per the photo in the manual. I'll mesure the spindle surface asap.
44 GPW 231738 10/23/1944
MVPA #36162

Joe Gopan
Jeep Heaven
Posts: 49841
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: A few quick steering knuckles questions.

Post by Joe Gopan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:56 am

The Spicer Bolts provided with the Spicer Produced Kits were the8Ea. 1/4" Bolts.
The nuts at the bearing caps were conventional.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

User avatar
Boyso
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: A few quick steering knuckles questions.

Post by Boyso » Sun Mar 26, 2017 9:58 am

Grooved section is 1,6150" (mesured three times around)

Rest is 1,6255"
44 GPW 231738 10/23/1944
MVPA #36162

User avatar
artificer
banned
Posts: 13558
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:46 am
Location: SINGAPORE

Re: A few quick steering knuckles questions.

Post by artificer » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:09 am

The spindle will be fine & you can use a correct locktite product if there is wear to ensure the bearings are in place properly but designed not to lock the bearing to the spindle.
Also with the steering arm there are 2 dowelled studs that need to be in place see TM 10 1513 Section 1000 Page 87.
Make sure these are in place otherwise the steering arm will work loose. That is why they are there.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

User avatar
Boyso
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: A few quick steering knuckles questions.

Post by Boyso » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:50 am

Ah crap didn't notice those studs. I hope they're not from the 4 I lost. I'll pull out those I have install to make sure.

For the locking compound, something like this John? http://www.loctite.com.au/3320_AUE_HTML ... 2627584001

Thanks
44 GPW 231738 10/23/1944
MVPA #36162

Joe Gopan
Jeep Heaven
Posts: 49841
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: A few quick steering knuckles questions.

Post by Joe Gopan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 10:54 am

I.D. of new TIMKEN 18590 Bearing--------------------------------------------------------------------------1.6250"
Spicer Spec for the two wheel bearing surfaces on MB, CJ-2A, CJ-3A,M-38/M-38A1 Spindle-----1.6243"-1.6248"
Worn Bearing surfaces on the spindles can be restored by Knurling, an efficient and time saving fix.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

User avatar
artificer
banned
Posts: 13558
Joined: Tue Jul 11, 2006 10:46 am
Location: SINGAPORE

Re: A few quick steering knuckles questions.

Post by artificer » Sun Mar 26, 2017 11:58 am

Boyso wrote:For the locking compound, something like this John?
NO.
Suggest contacting Henkel [they are continually introducing new/better products to their comprehensive range] or their 'qualified' local dealer [not Canadian Tyre or Lowes etc.]
http://www.henkel-northamerica.com/contact-us
for an appropriate recommendation that sets, filling any wear space symmetrically but not locking the bearing & spindle parts together. Just like a sleeve.
In the past correctly dimensioned shim stock has been used around the spindle circumference tightening things up while maintaining concentricity between the bearing & spindle, in extreme cases.

Then we have had folk who centre popped around the spindle [ineffective homebased effort @ knurling] that lasts a few miles before becoming useless.

When using locktite follow instructions, tighten the wheel bearings to binding, allow setting, then lastly adjust bearings properly.
The locktite route @ the end of the day makes for no sending parts out, real time lost or major expenditure.

Proper knurling may well work on the front spindles but becomes very expensive & difficult on the rear axle housing.
Incidentally knurling has not been used for many decades, in the real repair world.

Good products like locktite killed many antiquated methods off. Always go with realistic modern day solutions.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

Joe Gopan
Jeep Heaven
Posts: 49841
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: A few quick steering knuckles questions.

Post by Joe Gopan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 12:22 pm

If I were still doing machine work, it would be about a 1/2 hour job to knurl and finish both bearing shoulders to original O.D. on a worn spindle. Can't imagine attempting to wrap the races in paper thin shim stock and expecting it to stay put while installing the hub. or trying to glue the greasy wheel bearings in place with a few drops of Loctite. The front spindles take an awful pounding, especially if the wheel bearings are not adjusted properly.
Knurling will last nearly as long as the original surface. That is how it was done at Letterkenny Army Depot on Gov't Rebuilt G-503 Axles.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO

User avatar
Boyso
G-Colonel
G-Colonel
Posts: 1392
Joined: Sat Oct 08, 2011 2:32 pm
Location: Quebec, Canada

Re: A few quick steering knuckles questions.

Post by Boyso » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:11 pm

Thanks gents, I'm still a few months from installing the wheel bearings and I'll have to visit the machinist either way to have my brake drums turned so I'll check with him what's the best course of action financially and if he has the product John suggests or have it knurled as suggested by Joel. Thanks for your tine! Always fun to install a few cleaned up bits every weekend :)
44 GPW 231738 10/23/1944
MVPA #36162

Joe Gopan
Jeep Heaven
Posts: 49841
Joined: Sun Mar 02, 2008 12:37 pm
Location: Proving Ground

Re: A few quick steering knuckles questions.

Post by Joe Gopan » Sun Mar 26, 2017 4:18 pm

You can measure your spindles to compare with the spec I posted. If they are worn, perhaps one of the fellow members will have one that is better that they can give you a deal on. Same goes with the steering knuckle with the 7/16" thread.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO


Post Reply

Return to “MB GPW Technical Knowledge Base”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: iacobus and 63 guests