Four under timing cover screws.

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Re: Four under timing cover screws.

Post by fernando mendes » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:04 am

Ralph wrote:Fern ando,
A tapered 3/8 self-tapping bolt may be helpful if the taps get too close to the areas of concern.
No Ralph.Tried tape on 3/8"x16NC but only got tightened the bolt 3/8"x24NF.It is the end of my work.
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Re: Four under timing cover screws.

Post by artificer » Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:41 am

FERNANDO:
If the thread in the timing cover is currently 3/8"NF use the correct length 3/8" NF bolt. Trying to alter the cover's threading to 3/8"NC will ruin everything.
DO NOT DO THIS! That is why I said before
John wrote:Depending on the person & quality of this [possible] repair, the 4 threads @ the bottom of the timing cover could be any type thread.
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Re: Four under timing cover screws.

Post by fernando mendes » Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:16 pm

artificer wrote:FERNANDO:
If the thread in the timing cover is currently 3/8"NF use the correct length 3/8" NF bolt. Trying to alter the cover's threading to 3/8"NC will ruin everything.
DO NOT DO THIS! That is why I said before
John wrote:Depending on the person & quality of this [possible] repair, the 4 threads @ the bottom of the timing cover could be any type thread.
The threads I see looking under the pan are in the timing cover,ok?Answering to you:yes,I changed to the correct length 3/8"x24NFx3/4",only in the second from left to the right(only this was timing cover thread damaged,did not tightened).The other three bolts I tightened them with 3/8"x16NCx 3/4".DESCRIPTION:In the beginning of the confusion,all four bolts were 16NC,then I noticed that the first bolt of the left side was damaged in its thread,not tightening.Looking in the SNL-G503,in the wrong page,and believing that I was correct,tried to put first two bolts with 3/8"x24NFx3/4",but my left shoulder became painful tightening them.Then I ruined,not two,but only one(second left side).It is the end of my work.Thanks.Regards.
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Re: Four under timing cover screws.

Post by fernando mendes » Sat Dec 09, 2017 6:46 am

Ralph wrote:
Wed Feb 01, 2017 3:07 am
Fernando,there are (4) 5/16 x 18(NC) x 5/8 which are listed in the oil pan section of the SNL.These fasten the front bottom of the timing chain cover. 0107A Jan 44.
Hi Ralph.In group 01-Engine,0106D-Chain case cover,col 6,the quantity are 4(four) bolts(Willys) 3/8"x24NF-3x3/4".In 0107A-Oil pan,col 6,the quantity are 20(twenty?)(Willys)(6+14 bolts)=5/16"x18NC-2x5/8".Now I won't can change to 5/16".Thanks. :o
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Re: Four under timing cover screws.

Post by fernando mendes » Thu Jun 04, 2020 2:57 pm

fernando mendes wrote:
Tue Jan 31, 2017 11:31 pm
Ben Dover wrote:The ones under the cover that are shared with the front of the Oil Pan are 5/16"-18 NC.
Joel, you never said 18NC before.Show me the SNL-G503 page pic please.
5/16"-18NCx5/8"
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Re: Four under timing cover screws.

Post by Joe Gopan » Thu Jun 04, 2020 3:32 pm

I'll try to help you later tonite if I am up to it.
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Re: THOSE 5/16-18 NC OIL PAN BOLTS

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Jun 06, 2020 1:49 pm

For Fernando, here is the rest of the story about the use of 5/16"-18 NC Bolts. Sorry it took two years.

The 5/6-18 NC X 5/8" Bolts
THE MB Oil Pan is attached to the engine with 20 5/16-18 NC X 5/8" bolts , they also attach the CRANKSHAFT PULLEY SHIELD to the BLOCK and bottom of the TIMING COVER.All 20 of these BOLTS are 5/8" Long.

Somehow we got sidetracked and started discussing four 5/16 NC Bolts that were different length.

Enter the M-38 JEEP
The M-38 Oil Pan is also attached with 20 BOLTS that are 5/16-18 NC. Due to the larger M-38 PULLEY SHIELD there are spacers to LOWER the SHIELD and the bolts across the front of the M-38 OIL PAN have to be longer to accomodate the 6 SPACERS used on the M-38.

Summary.
Somehow we got sidetracked into discussing M-38 Oil Pan Bolts which was not necessary.

MB/GPW Uses 20 Each 5/16-NC X 5/8" Long Oil Pan Bolts

M-38 uses 14 Each 5/16"-18 NC X 5/8" Long Oil Pan Bolts and 6 Each 5/16-18 X 1" Long.
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Re: Four under timing cover screws.

Post by Marty, SoCal » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:55 am

And, if for some reason you don't run the MB/GPW splash shield and spacers, you must run shorter bolts at the timing cover to oil pan location or risk puncturing the timing cover as I believe Chuck mentioned earlier. Look in a SNL for the MA jeep, it didn't use the splash shield and it shows the shorter bolts, IIRC, four of them.

Ron has the splash shield and spacers. There also is some paper bolt retainers that hold the bolts and spacers assembled together as you install the shield, these are the same as the little 1/4" ring reinforcements you get at a stationary store for reinforcing papers when used in a ring binder. There is a stock number listed in the SNL.

Image

You put the bolt up through the shield, drop a spacer over the bolt threads, then put one of these self sticking paper rings over the bolt threads to retain the spacer. Makes the install job 100% easier!
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Re: Four under timing cover screws.

Post by Marty, SoCal » Sun Jun 07, 2020 6:59 am

Ron has the proper bolt and spacer sets at a very reasonable cost, Currently $20:

https://www.rfjp.com/p-2105-oil-pan-bol ... 238-k.aspx

Image

If you don't have a shield, you can still use this set, put the spacers under the timing cover bolts so they won't hit the cover until you can locate a shield. I looked, but I didn't see that Ron had the shield for sale.
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Re: Four under timing cover screws.

Post by Joe Gopan » Sun Jun 07, 2020 8:56 am

NABHOLTZ revised notes the A-6701 Fan Pulley Shield Screw Retaining Washer on Page 15.
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Re: Four under timing cover screws.

Post by Marty, SoCal » Sun Jun 07, 2020 9:23 am

In the 1949 SNL G-503, Group 102, page 25, ORD # 7743818, WO-A6701 Washer, Pulley Shield Retaining Bolt, 1/4" ID, 9/16" OD, .005" Thick. Qty. 6
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Re: Four under timing cover screws.

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:26 pm

Marty....

I looked at page 25 and found the following:

WASHER, pulley shield (S, 11/32" ID x 5/8" OD)

WASHER, pulley shield retaining bolt (S, 1/4 " ID x 9/16" OD x 0.005" thk)


Now, the problem I see here is two-fold, first of all, I have installed original pulley shield SPACERS, and I can tell you that they are NOT 0.005" thick.
Secondly, the first listing describes washers for the PULLEY SHIELD and the second listing is for washers for the PULLEY SHIELD RETAINING BOLT.

Again, one listing is for the PULLEY SHIELD and the next one is for a PULLEY SHIELD RETAINING BOLT.

So let's go with the WASHER for the pulley shield.....unless I am reading the intent of the description wrong....

Here are the GPW pan bolts:
GPW Pulley Shield Bolts.jpg
GPW Pan Bolts.jpg
GPW Oil Pan Recess Star Washer.jpg
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Re: Four under timing cover screws.

Post by Joe Gopan » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:33 pm

The information for the pulley shield is not listed in the same section of the other TM10 and SNL s for the G503. One has to do a bit of searching to find the Shields or their bolts. It is good practice. I found the parts in 5 or 6 different Parts manuals, even had to refer to the cooling section in a couple.
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Re: Four under timing cover screws.

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sun Jun 07, 2020 2:47 pm

Joel....

It's all there as Marty posted on page 25 of the ORD 8 SNL G-503.....October 1949 dated...which happens to be the Portrayal Press re-print:

SHIELD, crankshaft pulley

and right below, the two listings for WASHERS as I posted above.
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Re: Four under timing cover screws.

Post by fernando mendes » Sun Jun 07, 2020 3:29 pm

For Fernando, here is the rest of the story about the use of 5/16"-18 NC Bolts. Sorry it took two years.

The 5/6-18 NC X 5/8" Bolts
THE MB Oil Pan is attached to the engine with 20 5/16-18 NC X 5/8" bolts , they also attach the CRANKSHAFT PULLEY SHIELD to the BLOCK and bottom of the TIMING COVER.All 20 of these BOLTS are 5/8" Long.

Thanks Joe or Joseph Gopan.
Jeep Willys MB DoD dec,16 1942 s/n:196275
Dodge B3-B 4x2 1952 s/n:90099559
CCKW 353 Banjo 1944 s/n:309623


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