Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Chuck Lutz
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Re: Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

Post by Chuck Lutz » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:21 pm

Not that I actually own any of Farrell's canvas, but we have spoken a lot about that and the straps on jeeps. However I think the difference in what he is selling may boil down to the difference in the market each are selling to. The push-type fasteners, the use of "C" tips on straps for instance drive up the cost. Being as how most buyers will balk at the higher costs if those are standard features, to be competitive price-wise they are not on 95% of the tops being bought. For the perfectionist, Farrell is selling that type of product...it costs more but ya get what ya pay for, hopefully.

Seats are the same thing...not a lot of options if you need late style "S" spring style...and most guys just go with foam and no zippers probably anyway.

So...yes....you can buy correct canvas for you make and DOD jeep. Jest know they are definitely "special order", that you need to know what features you want and of course, "that's gonna cost ya extra".
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Re: Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

Post by Farrell Fox » Sat Dec 16, 2017 2:37 pm

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Re: Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Dec 16, 2017 9:22 pm

There is good canvas product from overseas, Allied Forces comes to mind when it comes to A-3216. Word has it that they use the same USA sourced canvas duck as the canvas shops over here use for repro Jeep tops. The original Surplus City in California made canvas for the Army during WWII. One of their stitchers from that era worked for them thru the 70's.
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Re: Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

Post by lenagirl1 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:20 pm

all of u guys on this thread are a real treat to read.i work with canvas alot but i admit i have learned alot more about it than i thought.thank you for all your posts and it is a pleasure to know that u guys are helping all of us on the G great reading.and a hello to chuck who has helped me alot and has a lot of helpful knowledge .i miss the commrodery at Mikes place.

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Re: Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

Post by lenagirl1 » Sun Dec 17, 2017 4:23 pm

i have an original M37 gargo cover and was going to cut it up for my gpw for making a top but it is a very heavy canvas ind i cant imagine they used that thick of canvas on jeeps/what was the weight of the od canvas for ww2 jeeps ?im thinking 8 or 10?

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Re: Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

Post by Joe Gopan » Sun Dec 17, 2017 7:10 pm

Think about it, why would they use a different weight duck to do the same job on MV's. I have OEM canvas cab covers and tarps for WWII thru 70's combat vehicles, it all comes from the same spec roll.
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Re: Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

Post by Farrell Fox » Sun Dec 17, 2017 8:17 pm

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Re: Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

Post by Joe Gopan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 5:04 am

Am partially correct. Do you buy your present canvas by the roll? My take is that you are buying the #10. Do you give your exacting WWII Jeep top customers a choice of which is correct for their G-503 Jeep and what is presently available?
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Re: Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

Post by Chuck Lutz » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:28 am

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Re: Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

Post by Joe Gopan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 8:53 am

There is some nice canvas out there. Where it is made, is a good question.
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Re: Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

Post by Farrell Fox » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:38 am

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Re: Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

Post by Joe Gopan » Mon Dec 18, 2017 2:40 pm

If I were to order your most accurate version of the A-3216 Top Cover what special details should I expect? Do you supply North and Judd Buckles for the rear, if not I may have enough.
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Re: Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

Post by tamnalan » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:23 am

I'm wondering about those rare fatty arbuckles - they would really snazz up a restoration! :D
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Re: Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Dec 19, 2017 4:58 am

I have been purchasing Repro and original A-3216 Tops from the various vendors since the early 70's in order to examine them first hand.
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Re: Does Anyone Make a Correct Canvas Top or Seats??

Post by Joe Friday » Fri Dec 22, 2017 7:04 am

I know that WeeBee and Farrell have the 1940-1945 canvas specs, so I'm just going to mention that after 1945 the specs did change. So did the suppliers. Discussion of later canvas is out of scope, and the follwing information is meant to explain why.

Jeep eventually changed from the single source supplier during WWII to include other suppliers such as American Cord and Webbing and American Waterproofing Corp for Canvas, Blocksom and Company for the Rubberized Horsehair seat pads and the American Thread company for their cotton thread. These names are on the notarized Quality certifications that came with every 'lot' of canvas, cushions, and thread. Canvas was typically tested once per 1000 yard lot, so please stop with the comments about product variation and how it was wartime and they took anything they could get.

The manufacturer of the canvas did not necessarily waterproof it. As an example, Duck produced by Turner Halsey Company was shipped to the Buckeye Fabric Finishing Company in ... Ohio to be treated, then delivered to Jeep in Toledo.

Yes, there was variation in color within each lot. There is a map showing which part(s) of the roll was to be tested to determine if that variation was within allowable limits. The water resistance test called for the canvas not to leak until a head of 17 inches of mercury was achieved. Shrinkage was to be less than 2.5%. Typical waterproofing used Copper 8 Quinolinolate and copper napthanate. Mildew resistance was a Melamine Colloid Process.

The spec for the duck from 1945 thru Jan 22 1951 was US Army 6-35.
From 1951 to Sept 11 1961 it was MIL-D-10860 (QMC) and replaced by Federal Specification CCC-C-428.

CCC-C-428 was in effect until at least 1977 as revision E.

Bottom line, I'd appreciate it if you stopped giving Farrell and WeeBee crap. They are two I personally know did their homework, and if they choose to protect their intellectual property, that's their right.

I see alot of references here to part numbers.
Yes, there is a part number for the top assembly, and individual part numbers for the components of the top.
None of the part numbers I have seen posted are the part numbers for the cutting templates.

As Tom W mentioned, a new top will be very loose. It won't fit right till 168 hours of exposure most likely (if you believe the test specs). I have the M38 cutting templates but am still searching for the MB cutting templates numbers if they exist.
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