That's another reason for not messing around using mine. I figured, one pops out, jams its way between the shaft and worm, hey I've got locked steering!!echelon1 wrote: BTW, these pins are not constantly trapped in mesh as some are claiming, with the wheels fully left or right 1 of both pins is not in the worm anymore and can come out enough to lock up the unit.
Gindi.
GPW Sector Shaft question.
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Re: GPW Sector Shaft question.
1944 GPW Restoration Project.
Frame number 192326 3-30-44
ACM II 158783 Dec 44?
Frame number 192326 3-30-44
ACM II 158783 Dec 44?
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: GPW Sector Shaft question.
1) If you buy a repop in the USA is will be from Crown most likely
2) If yours is prefessionally repaired the chances are it will last another 30,000 to 60,000 miles...can you say that about the Crown one?
3) The odds of one of the pins you have fitted/welded/swaged or otherwise tightly fitted into the sector shaft flange EVER coming loose and falling out is somewhere between little and none....after all....plenty of guys have taken them apart and found the pins to be a little LOOSE but NOBODY on g503 I am aware of has ever reported having an accident or killing themselves because one of the pins came OUT and jammed the steering assembly....I would say that is a little paranoid....I suppose if you drove the jeep the chances of being hit by lightning would be better than that occuring!
So...you can go with a 50-50 chance of buying a piece of crap or a professional repair of an original part...
Hmm...remember that the draglink has springs in it which also cushion the effects of rough roads to a certain extent or the driver would suffer from muscle fatigue on a long drive!
2) If yours is prefessionally repaired the chances are it will last another 30,000 to 60,000 miles...can you say that about the Crown one?
3) The odds of one of the pins you have fitted/welded/swaged or otherwise tightly fitted into the sector shaft flange EVER coming loose and falling out is somewhere between little and none....after all....plenty of guys have taken them apart and found the pins to be a little LOOSE but NOBODY on g503 I am aware of has ever reported having an accident or killing themselves because one of the pins came OUT and jammed the steering assembly....I would say that is a little paranoid....I suppose if you drove the jeep the chances of being hit by lightning would be better than that occuring!
So...you can go with a 50-50 chance of buying a piece of crap or a professional repair of an original part...
Hmm...remember that the draglink has springs in it which also cushion the effects of rough roads to a certain extent or the driver would suffer from muscle fatigue on a long drive!
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: GPW Sector Shaft question.
+1 & it is illegal where I come from.Gindi1 wrote:Welding on steering gear components is a sick idea anyway.
There are good sector shafts out there, no need to buy the crappy ones.
I have had good Jeep sector shafts from a Spanish source, after having problems with the 1/2 unfinished one's supplied in Crown boxes.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
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Re: GPW Sector Shaft question.
I know exactly where you're coming from Chuck, and had the pin not have been "floating" I probably would have stuck with it..
Where I stand I have one sector shaft with a twisted spline and one with a loose but repaired pin. I have found an original NOS item on Ebay. I refuse to buy the cheap stuff out there today. It is made to one spec only.. price!!
Just my 2p.
Where I stand I have one sector shaft with a twisted spline and one with a loose but repaired pin. I have found an original NOS item on Ebay. I refuse to buy the cheap stuff out there today. It is made to one spec only.. price!!
Just my 2p.
1944 GPW Restoration Project.
Frame number 192326 3-30-44
ACM II 158783 Dec 44?
Frame number 192326 3-30-44
ACM II 158783 Dec 44?
- Joe Friday
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Re: GPW Sector Shaft question.
The sector shafts I have received were spline incorrectly, and were 3/8" too long.
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- Chuck Lutz
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Re: GPW Sector Shaft question.
Welcome to the World of Crown Parts....no, they aren't always correct....yes they are often out-of-spec.....but we got them from the Guandong Political Re-Education Gulag real CHEAP!
...and there aren't many competitors available any longer in the USA.
...and there aren't many competitors available any longer in the USA.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: GPW Sector Shaft question.
"Some" dealers are accepting returns. Others are suggesting that somehow your 70 year old original part must have been wrong and that their 'new production' is correct even though the pitman arm nut won't thread all the way on, or the drag link is now at an angle.
I can't support or condemn a specific company since I threw their product in the trash and found another part, ironically also supplied to me by them in the past which was correct.
I can't support or condemn a specific company since I threw their product in the trash and found another part, ironically also supplied to me by them in the past which was correct.
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Re: GPW Sector Shaft question.
Joe F. is correct some dealers don't take these 'NEW' bad sector shafts back.
Crown could not give a sh*t when I called them to advise/complain about exactly the problem Joe enunciated....the tapered splines incorrectly machined or un-finished.
& no, I am not thankful about anyone investing in, then distributing BAD parts that end up in the trash bin @ MY expense.
Where does one get off trying to make excuses for unconscionable practices, protect thieves or indicate it is not kosher to expose folk who are ripping off our colleagues & other Jeep owners?
Crown could not give a sh*t when I called them to advise/complain about exactly the problem Joe enunciated....the tapered splines incorrectly machined or un-finished.
& no, I am not thankful about anyone investing in, then distributing BAD parts that end up in the trash bin @ MY expense.
Where does one get off trying to make excuses for unconscionable practices, protect thieves or indicate it is not kosher to expose folk who are ripping off our colleagues & other Jeep owners?
Like who wrote:Best not to name the person, there are other ways to share bad experiences....I've been thru the school of hard knocks and learned from a lot of mistakes, there are a lot of shortcomings that await the innocent in this hobby and not much that can be done to save all from the short end of the stick....If all who have stiffed fellow members of this site were publicized, it would be very embarrassing to quite a few that appear to be without sin. Best to lick your wounds and be humble....I have been burned for a lot more than you here and things usually work out. Sometimes one is better off from the ordeal, and the experience gained can be positive
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: GPW Sector Shaft question.
Which brings us back to all the other parts from Crown that one might run across in rebuilding a T-84 transmission....as Joe Friday and artificer have posted and as I have mentioned previously....Crown don't make anything; they put it out to bid and the low bidder is probably the one who gets the contract. Those who end up with some of these shoddy parts get "the shaft" in more ways that one since as Joe F. explained, even the dealers try to tell you the part is "OK" and it must either be what you are trying to install it in or you are a crappy mechanic and in no way can that part from Crown EVER be wrong!
New guys get get a glazed over look in thier eyes when "experienced" vendors tell them this and this is why the vendors and Crown continue to get away with selling crap....
I watched a guy try to fit a pitman arm on a Crown sector shaft for an hour for the exact same reason Joe mentioned....the splines were so poorly cut it would not fit with the nut/washer on there!
I happen to remember that it was Joel who mentioned that there were substandard 2nd gears for the T-84 around for over ten years one time. Take a wild guess who made them....
New guys get get a glazed over look in thier eyes when "experienced" vendors tell them this and this is why the vendors and Crown continue to get away with selling crap....
I watched a guy try to fit a pitman arm on a Crown sector shaft for an hour for the exact same reason Joe mentioned....the splines were so poorly cut it would not fit with the nut/washer on there!
I happen to remember that it was Joel who mentioned that there were substandard 2nd gears for the T-84 around for over ten years one time. Take a wild guess who made them....
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: GPW Sector Shaft question.
more of the same from Maine!Joel wrote:Crown is not immune from the crappy end of the stick.
Yes they are.
It is called 'accountability' plus QA & god forbid anyone employ QI....not accepting rubbish in the first place.
Accepting, unchecked, boxing then pedaling rubbish off to others/dealers/customers.
Frankly we would be better off without them, as well as folk trying to excuse them, for their ongoing sins.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
- Joe Friday
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Re: GPW Sector Shaft question.
While I was at the SEMA show I attempted to give them their unusable part along with the correct factory blueprint with original specifications and was told that they already had all the information they needed.
I guess that was my credit card number...
I guess that was my credit card number...
2018 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #419
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Re: GPW Sector Shaft question.
I really do hope you're not referring to me when you made this statement Joel. Go take a look at the work I've done on my Chassis in my restoration thread, I think then you'll realise this isn't "hype", more of a clear conscious in knowing I did it right. Bubba made repairs to my Jeep that have lasted for many years.. that doesn't make them "good".Ben Dover wrote:What is wrong with the current replacements available from dealers in the USA. The hype is understandable from those new to Jeep who have not been exposed to those who have witnessed good repairs over a long period of time. A competent shop is a good confidence builder.
If the truth be known, most of the parts available for our Jeeps today are nothing like the quality they were made with over 70 years ago. Just take a look at my latest posts where I have had to spend hours rebuilding crappy "replica" Ford shock mounts.
1944 GPW Restoration Project.
Frame number 192326 3-30-44
ACM II 158783 Dec 44?
Frame number 192326 3-30-44
ACM II 158783 Dec 44?
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Re: GPW Sector Shaft question.
I bought a "new" sector shaft off EBay. It was from a guy in Turkey who claimed it was new.
Well, it turned up yesterday and is actually worse than the ones I already have !! Fair play to the seller, he has agreed to take it back for a full refund.
So, I still don't have a good sector shaft for my steering box rebuild.
Well, it turned up yesterday and is actually worse than the ones I already have !! Fair play to the seller, he has agreed to take it back for a full refund.
So, I still don't have a good sector shaft for my steering box rebuild.
1944 GPW Restoration Project.
Frame number 192326 3-30-44
ACM II 158783 Dec 44?
Frame number 192326 3-30-44
ACM II 158783 Dec 44?
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: GPW Sector Shaft question.
Nigel....
Three pages later....maybe a good machine shop can PRESS the shoulder on the pin to tighten it up after it is rotated 90 degrees from any wear spot. As long as they press just the shoulder and not the dome of the pin it should not deform and effect the steering or cause a safety issue. They weren't welded in to begin with and if they can come loose they weren't swaged in there very tight anyway.
If it is up to spec otherwise you will probably end up with a better sector shaft than what you might run across....who knows if the Crown ones are going to start to come loose in 100 miles anyway....QUALITY isn't what they are selling!
Three pages later....maybe a good machine shop can PRESS the shoulder on the pin to tighten it up after it is rotated 90 degrees from any wear spot. As long as they press just the shoulder and not the dome of the pin it should not deform and effect the steering or cause a safety issue. They weren't welded in to begin with and if they can come loose they weren't swaged in there very tight anyway.
If it is up to spec otherwise you will probably end up with a better sector shaft than what you might run across....who knows if the Crown ones are going to start to come loose in 100 miles anyway....QUALITY isn't what they are selling!
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: GPW Sector Shaft question.
Seal Tester....Crown....it really doesn't matter much since they don't MAKE the parts, they just put them out to bid. The PROBLEM is wether or not they have anyone awake in the Quality Control Department of their Purchasing Division....Seal Tested might but we are pretty sure that Crown eliminated that department years ago in a cost-cutting move to increase profits...
You might get a perfectly GOOD part one time and then the next time you get one from a different batch and it is crap. Crown is like that.
Too bad those French sector shafts are not readily available in the USA....sounds to me like they actually HAD a Quality Control Department!
You might get a perfectly GOOD part one time and then the next time you get one from a different batch and it is crap. Crown is like that.
Too bad those French sector shafts are not readily available in the USA....sounds to me like they actually HAD a Quality Control Department!
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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