Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
Luca...I can't tell for sure if the photo of the strap buckles on those seat straps are FLAT or the round style your jerry can carrier strap has....however, here are two pictures of those same round style buckle styles....and I think we know which company made buckles with an ANCHOR one them don't we!!!!
I'd say that not only could a case be made for the round style buckle assembly to be perfectly acceptable in WWII for a motorpool usage, but perhaps even for a FACTORY item?Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
I have some NOS WWII Issue Gas Can Straps with the exact buckle illustrated in1944 dated TB ORD 92. Will try to get a pic tonite. There is a difference in the hinged buckles used in WWII.
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- Mark Tombleson
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
Since the Anchor has been North & Judd's logo since the 1800s I would say they may be factory.
The drawing says North & Judd 1-1/2 inch #025 or equal.
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- lucakiki
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
Thank you for the drawing, Mark!
Also the tip is interesting.
Chuck, the " frame " of the left buckle on that picture of the straps appears to me as not flat, quite different from the flat buckles of Sean's n.o.s. straps.
My reasoning seeing the picture was that if alternative buckles are ok on the straps under the seat, that might happen also for the jerrycan straps.
Nice to see that the interest for the straps is still alive.
From what I read some other pictures might be posted in a near future, although I only believe things when I see them.
Also the tip is interesting.
Chuck, the " frame " of the left buckle on that picture of the straps appears to me as not flat, quite different from the flat buckles of Sean's n.o.s. straps.
My reasoning seeing the picture was that if alternative buckles are ok on the straps under the seat, that might happen also for the jerrycan straps.
Nice to see that the interest for the straps is still alive.
From what I read some other pictures might be posted in a near future, although I only believe things when I see them.
Luca
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
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WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
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- Chuck Lutz
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
Luca.....It seems that the canvas top uses the round style....that perhaps the under-seat straps do also as you just pointed out....add to that the possibility of the jerry can strap......are we seeing a pattern of usage here?
I'm not going to go surfing here, but didn't someone post pics of the straps on the side of the jeep for pioneer tools with the round style buckles also?
Factory or replacement? Ford or Willys? Early or Late?
The problem is, canvas rots out pretty fast so not many 60yr old+ straps/buckles remain on jeeps.
I'm not going to go surfing here, but didn't someone post pics of the straps on the side of the jeep for pioneer tools with the round style buckles also?
Factory or replacement? Ford or Willys? Early or Late?
The problem is, canvas rots out pretty fast so not many 60yr old+ straps/buckles remain on jeeps.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
Here you go. Ebay item no. 171130231588
- lucakiki
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
Yes, there is no doubt that the hinged buckles are the correct WWII buckles for the jerrycan straps.USMC1980 wrote:Here you go. Ebay item no. 171130231588
What might change, or at least rediscussed, is the possibility that the "sliding" buckle such as the ones in my old picture might be available in WWII, hence acceptable as motorpool replacement, or even fitted from factory,unless anyone can exclude this with 100% safety..
Also the D type tips, which had been discussed in the past, might be considered under a new light, looking at the Drawing posted by Mark.
Luca
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
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WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
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- nick peters
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
Hey Everyone
I wonder if Mark could tell us the date on the drawing for the straps?
regards Nick
I wonder if Mark could tell us the date on the drawing for the straps?
regards Nick
- Mark Tombleson
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
This is for Rml1708... I'm afraid you are going to be a bit disappointed as there is not much information off to the right of where I cropped.
I tried to get the title block in but I went over the 10mb limit... no date on that anyway.
Here are the notes:
The part changed from AE-4123 to A-4123 on 6-11-42.
I tried to get the title block in but I went over the 10mb limit... no date on that anyway.
Here are the notes:
The part changed from AE-4123 to A-4123 on 6-11-42.
MB-NAVY-MZ-1 352625 - 07/20/44 (DOD est.)
U.S.N. 133818
2nd place Restored Class 2008 Portland Convention
MVPA Hall of Fame - 2013
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
What is the optional Tip Detail? Would it be a "Ball Tip"?
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
COL. BRUNO BROOKS (ARMY MOTORS) IS MY HERO
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
7 MIL SPEC MAINTAINED MV'S
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- lucakiki
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
Some like to call it a ball tip, while others, and it has been discussed before, are ok with calling it a D tip.
Whatever one wants to call it, it is evident that the tip on the right is an acceptable kind.
Thanks again, Mark.
Whatever one wants to call it, it is evident that the tip on the right is an acceptable kind.
Thanks again, Mark.
Luca
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
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WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________
- nick peters
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
Mark
thanks for posting the section listing dates. That is very interesting. So Luca armed with this information ,now we can say that D tips are mentioned in july 44. However, despite that, what we STILL cannot say for certain is that they were actually fitted to vehicles (mb's gpw's) at the factories. Nor can we say for certain that they were manufactured/issued for fitting (gpw's mb's) out in the field during ww2. So for me only C tips on gas straps,axe shovel top bows and top stowage straps(gpw's mb's) until proven otherwise.
regards Nick
thanks for posting the section listing dates. That is very interesting. So Luca armed with this information ,now we can say that D tips are mentioned in july 44. However, despite that, what we STILL cannot say for certain is that they were actually fitted to vehicles (mb's gpw's) at the factories. Nor can we say for certain that they were manufactured/issued for fitting (gpw's mb's) out in the field during ww2. So for me only C tips on gas straps,axe shovel top bows and top stowage straps(gpw's mb's) until proven otherwise.
regards Nick
- lucakiki
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
I agree, Nick! No evidence, but certainly at least for motorpool the D tips have gained a slightly better provenance than what they used to have.
To tell you the truth, even before Mark's generous sharing of the drawing I was not really ready to trash my nice 42-B marked bracket with its unmolested riveted strap,its D tip, and its "different" buckle...
Besides, the jeep police might have more important aspects to chastize on my jeep than object to my straps......
To tell you the truth, even before Mark's generous sharing of the drawing I was not really ready to trash my nice 42-B marked bracket with its unmolested riveted strap,its D tip, and its "different" buckle...
Besides, the jeep police might have more important aspects to chastize on my jeep than object to my straps......
Luca
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________
WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...
__________________________________________
_____________________________________________
__________________________________________
- Chuck Lutz
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
Sorry, but no where does the drawing say the "D" tips were introduced in July 1944 at all....in fact, the lettered note for the "D" tip is note "K" and we can't see that date....we can see J (the first one) and it is dated 0CTOBER 11, 1944. So it may be possible that the "K" entry was also made on 10-11-44 or....maybe in 1952 for all we know.
This Willys drawing DOES say that the "D" tip was "correct" but at some point in time on/after October 11, 1944.
The "D" tips were used during WWII, no argument there, but when they were used on factory installed gas can straps is not known.
This Willys drawing DOES say that the "D" tip was "correct" but at some point in time on/after October 11, 1944.
The "D" tips were used during WWII, no argument there, but when they were used on factory installed gas can straps is not known.
Chuck Lutz
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap
An important thing to note is the writing at the top of the drawing..... - end tip...North & Judd #13 or equalSorry, but no where does the drawing say the "D" tips were introduced in July 1944 at all....in fact, the lettered note for the "D" tip is note "K" and we can't see that date....we can see J (the first one) and it is dated 0CTOBER 11, 1944. So it may be possible that the "K" entry was also made on 10-11-44 or....maybe in 1952 for all we know.
How did you get the date for "J" notation? I cant get it clear enough to see a date
This Willys drawing DOES say that the "D" tip was "correct" but at some point in time on/after October 11, 1944. This date refers to"H" notation
The "D" tips were used during WWII, no argument there, but when they were used on factory installed gas can straps is not known. agreed
This is where it gets interesting...who is to say what was used or when . Unless the original purchase orders and corresponding delivery receipts come to light then a definitive answer will always be elusive.... but it makes the time go by
Last edited by Michael Browne on Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
Michael Browne
Heron Hill Motorpool
REAL jeeps have BAR GRILLES and FLAT FENDERS. The rest are imitations.
Heron Hill Motorpool
REAL jeeps have BAR GRILLES and FLAT FENDERS. The rest are imitations.
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