Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Chuck Lutz
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Sep 18, 2013 7:25 am

Luca...I can't tell for sure if the photo of the strap buckles on those seat straps are FLAT or the round style your jerry can carrier strap has....however, here are two pictures of those same round style buckle styles....and I think we know which company made buckles with an ANCHOR one them don't we!!!!
Ford Top ROUND Buckle LC66.jpg
Ford Top ROUND Buckle LC66.jpg (113.11 KiB) Viewed 2358 times
Top Strap ROUND Style ANCHOR LC66.jpg
Top Strap ROUND Style ANCHOR LC66.jpg (90.69 KiB) Viewed 2358 times
I'd say that not only could a case be made for the round style buckle assembly to be perfectly acceptable in WWII for a motorpool usage, but perhaps even for a FACTORY item?
Chuck Lutz

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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Sep 18, 2013 8:28 am

I have some NOS WWII Issue Gas Can Straps with the exact buckle illustrated in1944 dated TB ORD 92. Will try to get a pic tonite. There is a difference in the hinged buckles used in WWII.
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

Post by Mark Tombleson » Wed Sep 18, 2013 9:06 am

Image

Since the Anchor has been North & Judd's logo since the 1800s I would say they may be factory.

The drawing says North & Judd 1-1/2 inch #025 or equal.
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

Post by lucakiki » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:17 pm

Thank you for the drawing, Mark!

Also the tip is interesting.

Chuck, the " frame " of the left buckle on that picture of the straps appears to me as not flat, quite different from the flat buckles of Sean's n.o.s. straps.

My reasoning seeing the picture was that if alternative buckles are ok on the straps under the seat, that might happen also for the jerrycan straps.

Nice to see that the interest for the straps is still alive.

From what I read some other pictures might be posted in a near future, although I only believe things when I see them. :wink:
Luca

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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

Post by Chuck Lutz » Wed Sep 18, 2013 1:25 pm

Luca.....It seems that the canvas top uses the round style....that perhaps the under-seat straps do also as you just pointed out....add to that the possibility of the jerry can strap......are we seeing a pattern of usage here?

I'm not going to go surfing here, but didn't someone post pics of the straps on the side of the jeep for pioneer tools with the round style buckles also?

Factory or replacement? Ford or Willys? Early or Late?

The problem is, canvas rots out pretty fast so not many 60yr old+ straps/buckles remain on jeeps.
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GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

Post by USMC1980 » Wed Sep 18, 2013 6:26 pm

Here you go. Ebay item no. 171130231588

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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

Post by lucakiki » Wed Sep 18, 2013 11:38 pm

USMC1980 wrote:Here you go. Ebay item no. 171130231588
Yes, there is no doubt that the hinged buckles are the correct WWII buckles for the jerrycan straps.


What might change, or at least rediscussed, is the possibility that the "sliding" buckle such as the ones in my old picture might be available in WWII, hence acceptable as motorpool replacement, or even fitted from factory,unless anyone can exclude this with 100% safety..

Also the D type tips, which had been discussed in the past, might be considered under a new light, looking at the Drawing posted by Mark.
Luca

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45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

Post by nick peters » Thu Sep 19, 2013 5:02 am

Hey Everyone
I wonder if Mark could tell us the date on the drawing for the straps?
regards Nick

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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

Post by Mark Tombleson » Fri Sep 20, 2013 8:52 am

This is for Rml1708... I'm afraid you are going to be a bit disappointed as there is not much information off to the right of where I cropped.

I tried to get the title block in but I went over the 10mb limit... no date on that anyway.

Image

Here are the notes:

Image

The part changed from AE-4123 to A-4123 on 6-11-42.
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

Post by Joe Gopan » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:11 am

What is the optional Tip Detail? Would it be a "Ball Tip"?
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

Post by lucakiki » Fri Sep 20, 2013 9:41 am

Some like to call it a ball tip, while others, and it has been discussed before, are ok with calling it a D tip.
Whatever one wants to call it, it is evident that the tip on the right is an acceptable kind.
Thanks again, Mark.
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

Post by nick peters » Fri Sep 20, 2013 11:42 am

Mark
thanks for posting the section listing dates. That is very interesting. So Luca armed with this information ,now we can say that D tips are mentioned in july 44. However, despite that, what we STILL cannot say for certain is that they were actually fitted to vehicles (mb's gpw's) at the factories. Nor can we say for certain that they were manufactured/issued for fitting (gpw's mb's) out in the field during ww2. So for me only C tips on gas straps,axe shovel top bows and top stowage straps(gpw's mb's) until proven otherwise.
regards Nick

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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

Post by lucakiki » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:02 pm

I agree, Nick! No evidence, but certainly at least for motorpool the D tips have gained a slightly better provenance than what they used to have.
To tell you the truth, even before Mark's generous sharing of the drawing I was not really ready to trash my nice 42-B marked bracket with its unmolested riveted strap,its D tip, and its "different" buckle... :)

Besides, the jeep police might have more important aspects to chastize on my jeep than object to my straps......
Luca

WillysMB#344142 6-19-44 Navy N.S.Blue Grey
45 Bantam T-3 #57248 1-10-45
42 Willys MB-T #13560 11-42
43 Willys MB-T # 25417 4-43
Way too many WWII military tools,hopefully thinning down,and way too many posts...

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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

Post by Chuck Lutz » Fri Sep 20, 2013 12:47 pm

Sorry, but no where does the drawing say the "D" tips were introduced in July 1944 at all....in fact, the lettered note for the "D" tip is note "K" and we can't see that date....we can see J (the first one) and it is dated 0CTOBER 11, 1944. So it may be possible that the "K" entry was also made on 10-11-44 or....maybe in 1952 for all we know.

This Willys drawing DOES say that the "D" tip was "correct" but at some point in time on/after October 11, 1944.

The "D" tips were used during WWII, no argument there, but when they were used on factory installed gas can straps is not known.
Chuck Lutz

GPW 17963 4/24/42 Chester, PA. USA 20113473 (USA est./Tom W.)
Bantam T3-C 1947

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Re: Correct FACTORY Gas Can Strap

Post by Michael Browne » Sat Sep 21, 2013 2:52 am

Sorry, but no where does the drawing say the "D" tips were introduced in July 1944 at all....in fact, the lettered note for the "D" tip is note "K" and we can't see that date....we can see J (the first one) and it is dated 0CTOBER 11, 1944. So it may be possible that the "K" entry was also made on 10-11-44 or....maybe in 1952 for all we know.

How did you get the date for "J" notation? I cant get it clear enough to see a date

This Willys drawing DOES say that the "D" tip was "correct" but at some point in time on/after October 11, 1944. This date refers to"H" notation

The "D" tips were used during WWII, no argument there, but when they were used on factory installed gas can straps is not known. agreed
An important thing to note is the writing at the top of the drawing..... - end tip...North & Judd #13 or equal

This is where it gets interesting...who is to say what was used or when . Unless the original purchase orders and corresponding delivery receipts come to light then a definitive answer will always be elusive.... but it makes the time go by :mrgreen: :wink:
Last edited by Michael Browne on Sat Sep 21, 2013 4:08 am, edited 1 time in total.
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