Head gasket - which side up

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
willik43
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Head gasket - which side up

Post by willik43 » Sat May 19, 2012 5:37 am

Hi guys, I am not able to get any instructions how to install this gasket from supplier here, no sign like "top" on the gasket. Please see main differencies in red circled areas. Note - It is possible to mount it in both ways. What do you think - which side up?
Petr.
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Re: Head gasket - which side up

Post by Wolfman » Sat May 19, 2012 5:58 am

The side with the solid metal between the cylinders in your red circle goes next to the block. Down.
The side with the gasket material between the rolled edges between the cylinders goes next to the head. Up.
Mike Wolford
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Re: Head gasket - which side up

Post by Wolfman » Sat May 19, 2012 6:03 am

One more thing.
Looks like your going to use copper coat. Good stuff but after appling it, let it cure completely before installing the gasket and head or it may act like grease and the fire ring may sqeeze out into the cylinder.
Yes. That comes from experience. :oops:
Mike Wolford
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Re: Head gasket - which side up

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat May 19, 2012 7:14 am

If still in doubt put the printed side up. What brand is printed on the gasket?
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willik43
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Re: Head gasket - which side up

Post by willik43 » Sat May 19, 2012 8:13 am

Nothing is printed on. I bought it from Crown Automotive SalesCo. Inc. (http://www.crownautomotive.net/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;) part 638540. Moses Ludel's rebuiders manual page 147 says "" ... crimped edges of the gasket shoud face down. This places a full metal surface toward the cylinder head, reducing risk of gasket burnout between cyliders. ...."
By the way torqueing: I use toque in 3 steps, 1st - 45 lb/ft, 2nd - 60 lb/ft, 3rd 2nd - 70 lb/ft. Then after engine warm-up re-torque to 70 lb/ft when engine is warm. And re-torque to 70 lb/ft again after approx 600 miles. What is your opinion?
I am a bit confused, lot of roumours / hints heard. No one of my G friends here has seen a head gasket with precise application of vendor how to apply. Maybe it is different in US ....
Petr
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Re: Head gasket - which side up

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat May 19, 2012 8:21 am

Willys Factory says "crimped edge down" but will add to the confusion, there are many brands of Jeep Head Gaskets, many will indicate the printed side up regardless of the fire dam construction.
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Re: Head gasket - which side up

Post by SB5477 » Sat May 19, 2012 8:35 am

One more thing Petr, check the way the metal is crimped. I had to scrap some similar looking, brand new head gaskets recently, because the metal was not shaped correctly. Check the area between 1-2 and 3-4 intake valves.

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Re: Head gasket - which side up

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat May 19, 2012 8:41 am

Who was the manufacturer of the brand you scrapped, made in USA, ot Europe?
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
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Re: Head gasket - which side up

Post by SB5477 » Sat May 19, 2012 9:35 am

No country of origin printed on,(my guess its European) only the statement "High Quality Gasket" on red and white stripes. The packaging of the head gasket was green and white a bit like Payen.

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Re: Head gasket - which side up

Post by willik43 » Sat May 19, 2012 10:06 am

Label on my gaskets say "Made in USA"
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Re: Head gasket - which side up

Post by SB5477 » Sat May 19, 2012 10:39 am

Petr,
My gaskets had the same fault on the metal part as yours except it was worse.

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Re: Head gasket - which side up

Post by Wolfman » Sun May 20, 2012 6:23 am

Last summer, I made a post about an engine I helped a friend work on.
The engine had just been rebuilt by a " Professional" engine builder in Wisc.
With in 500 miles my friend had a blown head gasket between cyl. 3 and 4.
This was on an M-38a1. F-134 engine. Basicly same designed gasket as the l-134 gasket here.
On tear down it was found to have been bored +.060 and a chamfer had been cut in the top of the cylinders. WRONG !
The gasket, like the one in the picture had been installed with the rolled egde down against the chamfered edge.
With the over sized cyls. and the chamfer, there wasn't much top deck surface on the block for the rolled metal gasket edge to seal against and it failed.The narrow gasket section between #3 and #4 was completely blown out and the section between #1 and #2 was well on it's way to failing.
The rebuilder copped an attitude straight up and my friend was desperate to get to a show.
The hope was to make the show and at least make it to winter to pull the engine and have it sleeved.
So, we installed a new gasket with the rolled edge up, because, the head surface was flat and had more surface for the rolled edge to seal against as opposed to the rolled edge near or slightly hanging over an edge.
After a summer of driving and a year later, the engine is running fine.
If it fails again, the repair will be the same with nothing lost at this point, so, do you tear down a good engine that has already had a high dollar rebuild or wait ??
So far it has been worth the wait.
Now, from experience, I install the rolled edge up.
As for print. Logic reins.
Early Military Tech manual said to install connecting rods with the wide side toward the nearest main bearing. WRONG !!!
Mike Wolford
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AOPA ( 50 yrs)
EAA ( 49 yrs)
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Re: Head gasket - which side up

Post by willik43 » Sun May 20, 2012 7:57 am

Your last post sounds very logical. Thank you I will use it next time.
Pls. advise what I should do now having one engine at original size, no re-bored (no chamfer), but head gasket installed rolled egde down, copper coat used.
Petr
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1945 MB 423482 - ex Greek Army (salad)

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Re: Head gasket - which side up

Post by Wolfman » Wed May 23, 2012 5:35 am

Sorry I missed your last post Petr.
I sent you a PM.
The chamfer on the engine cylinders I referred to was the main problem.
More so than the head gasket orientation.
The chamfer on Cyl. #3 in this engine is so large, a replacemnt sleeve would not remove all of it.
If a problem happens, we will deal with it then.
Even with the chamfer, the engine is running OK a year later and the owner is going to keep running it.
I would not think the engine you described would have a problem.
I would go ahead and run the engine.
Mike Wolford
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VEP GPW
Comm./Inst. SEL
AOPA ( 50 yrs)
EAA ( 49 yrs)
4th Inf. Div. - 5th Inf. Div. - 2nd Armor Div. - CIB

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Re: Head gasket - which side up

Post by artificer » Wed May 23, 2012 6:05 am

I like & I'd follow Mike's advice perhaps even if it went against gasket markings.
The added clamping force doing it the way he did is logical & obviously worked, when doing it by the book would have failed again.
There are many stories about Jeeps continually blowing head gaskets, even when both head & block surfaces are flat & fine.
Heard the story about lemmings?
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Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.


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