Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
Gustl
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Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

Post by Gustl » Tue May 08, 2012 11:57 am

Hi!

As some of you might have noted, I am rebuilding my T84.

Also inspecting all clutch parts, as I got strange noise from the clutch.

Would you consider the marked areas of the carrier as a problem?
Image

Or just normal use, good for another 50.000 miles?
Gustl

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Re: Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

Post by SB5477 » Tue May 08, 2012 12:13 pm

Fit a new one, Gustl.

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Re: Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue May 08, 2012 12:22 pm

You should at a minimum weld it up or braze it restore the original surface for the clutch fork and grind the repair smooth as the uneven surface will cause undue wear on the fork. A new one is worth the expense and may be more economical. A smear of grease should be applied to the ears and the inside of the groove filled level with chassis grease. I prefer to use Lubriplate 630AA on the clutch sleeve (collar). The dimple in the fork for the Pivot Ball should have a bit of the same lube. It is not unheard of for the ball to wear thru the dimple in the fork.
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Re: Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

Post by Carsten » Tue May 08, 2012 1:50 pm

Ben Dover wrote:...A smear of grease should be applied to the ears and the inside of the groove filled level with chassis grease...
What groove??
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Re: Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue May 08, 2012 2:18 pm

The one you can see in the photo on the rear of the Carrier. Stick your finger inside and feel it.
I prefer to repair and reuse the 644366 Carrier if it is original such as the one Gustl shows in his photo. The reason for that being the ear wher the Return Spring (WO-630117) attaches is in its original location. The majority of the present 644366 Caririers have this ear for the spring way up next to the Carrier Bearing, a difference of of 7/8" which requires extreme stretching of the spring. I save all of the original Carriers for reconditioning and reuse because of this.
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Re: Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue May 08, 2012 5:17 pm

Yours is rather worn however I removed a GPW marked one and it had about half that much wear. I put each ear on a grinder and removed metal until they were flat again....it has not been a problem since then....the barely 1/16" of metal I removed did not effect the structural integrity of the bearing carrier and the loss of metal is not a problem when you adjust your clutch linkage anyway.

I would check the fork for wear on the dimple the ball pivot rides in, the "V" for the Clutch Cable and the slightly rounded areas on each tine of the fork to insure it is not flattened out.
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Re: Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

Post by Gustl » Tue May 08, 2012 11:19 pm

Thank you guys for giving me your opinions and sharing your experiences. As I could not compare the carrier with a new one, I had no idea what a new one has to look like.
Chuck Lutz wrote:I would check the fork for wear on the dimple the ball pivot rides in, the "V" for the Clutch Cable and the slightly rounded areas on each tine of the fork to insure it is not flattened out.
The fork is already new, installed last fall. Was the result of this story: http://www.g503.com/forums/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=190092" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; :)
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Re: Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

Post by SB5477 » Tue May 08, 2012 11:26 pm

Hello Gustl,
I have a NOS and repo here, wait a little and I will send you some pictures.

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Re: Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

Post by SB5477 » Wed May 09, 2012 12:15 am

Gustl,
E-mail sent with pictures.

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Re: Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed May 09, 2012 3:53 am

The After Market Carriers with the different spring attachment location have been available for the past 40 years, they are not repro, but genuine Jeep Replacement parts. The Carriers on the US Jeep market have "made in USA on the side behind the ear with the drilled hole. Bower (BCA) has included this type on their Throwout Bearing Assembly (W 1505-C) for decades. The OEM Collar, with the original spring location 644366 was available thru the late 70's from authorized Jeep Factory Parts Departments. The aftermarket can be easily recognized by the location for the spring immediately behind or adjacent to the As far as I know, the OEM type is not readly available on the Jeep replacement parts market, but may occasionly show up from Gov't Surplus and W.O.F. stock.
Am sure many of you have experienced having to stretch the return spring to fit a new carrier.
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Re: Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

Post by Gustl » Wed May 09, 2012 6:59 am

Ben Dover wrote:The reason for that being the ear wher the Return Spring (WO-630117) attaches is in its original location. The majority of the present 644366 Caririers have this ear for the spring way up next to the Carrier Bearing, a difference of of 7/8" which requires extreme stretching of the spring. I save all of the original Carriers for reconditioning and reuse because of this.
Zoli (SB5477) was kind enough to send me a pic, comparing the OEM or NOS and aftermarket. I think its interesting to compare for all of you:

Image


Thanks Zoli!

So why not just use a longer spring for the aftermarket carrier?
Gustl

43 MB in restoration, Braden Capstan Winch
44 MB/GPW salad, 53 Maltourneé rebuilt ITM0037090
some Bantam T3 trailers (ex Austrian Army in 2010)
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Re: Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed May 09, 2012 7:36 am

No one is offering them. It is best when something standard is offered so that all dealers are on the same page, the original 630117 works fine, it is a bit more difficult to install but is OK.
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Re: Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

Post by SB5477 » Sun May 13, 2012 9:59 pm

Here is an original and a repo 644366
Image

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Re: Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

Post by Gustl » Mon Jul 02, 2012 7:05 am

Update with question here:

Sourced a replacement bearing carrier as of our discussion above.

Got one from a German dealer, was covered with corrosion. So I think it might be NOS or at least an old repro part.
Image

The good news is, that the ear for the return spring is in the correct place.
The bad news to me: If I compare them, the W.O.F. has much stronger ears for the clutch fork:
Image

Something to be concerned about with the replacement part?
Gustl

43 MB in restoration, Braden Capstan Winch
44 MB/GPW salad, 53 Maltourneé rebuilt ITM0037090
some Bantam T3 trailers (ex Austrian Army in 2010)
My Youtube Channel: http://www.youtube.com/user/g503gustl?feature=mhee" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

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Re: Clutch Release Bearing Carrier Question

Post by Joe Gopan » Mon Jul 02, 2012 1:36 pm

They are both post 60's aftermarket, OEM had the anchor for the return spring about 3/8"-1/2" closer to the transmission No need to get paranoid, tho the aftermarkets are every bit as good, but do require a bit of stretching to install the return spring. There were several aftermarket manufacturers and for some reason or other the anchor fo the spring was moved toward the bearing sometime during the 60's. I used to buy mine from Jeep untin they became obsolete after the 70's for just that reason.
2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD - MVPA #1064
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 300,000+TROUBLE FREE M-38A1 MILES
LIFE MEMBER AM LEGION-40/8-DAV
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