Axle Drums

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Re: Axle Drums

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Jan 31, 2012 3:44 pm

It is also a good idea to put some thread sealer on the differential bearing cap bolts (I like Permatex #2 or #3) to keep the GO from seeping along the threads and soaking the outside of the housing.
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Re: Axle Drums

Post by artificer » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:23 pm

Looking good but, be aware that you should not put "normal grease" on the shoe slides on the backing plate. If you insist there is a special type of grease used in exposed areas inside the brake drum http://www.lubegard.com/~/C-278/Squeak+ ... ake+Grease" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
Seeing the front axle ends have been gas axed off [for free wheeling hubs] you might like to clean them up using an angle grinder so as not to be noticeable.

The TM explanation for brake adjustment is extremely vague [tighten the hub nut until the wheel binds], to even the most experienced & more understandable methods have been covered many times before.

Do not fit both nuts, lock washer or axle end plate, but only the first nut snugged up then fill the opening with a shop towel to stop dirt & dust & do no more.
That is until the axle assy's are fitted to the vehicle & you can install the wheels.
When the wheels are installed & torqued....adjust the spindle nuts tightly [in turn] to ensure the bearings are seated properly then back well off & slowly tighten again until when the wheel when gripped @ the top & bottom then rocked in & out exhibits no movement, you might want to back off 1 castellation fit the lock washer, lock nut & bend the lockwasher over the outer lock nut....NOTICE THE HUB POSITION WHERE YOU MUST LEVER AGAINST
Image
The backing off is to ensure that the thread slop when taken up by tightening the outer nut doesn't get too much pre-load on the bearings.

Front hubs....there may be some movement associated with the spindle [king pin] bearings when you try moving the wheel in & out. You can isolate that hub related movement by applying the brakes....if the movement changes when you apply the brakes, the hub bearings are too loose.

Also adjusting brakes by the TM is a PITA so try this method now & fine tune, when the wheels are on:
Image
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Re: Axle Drums

Post by lt.luke » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:47 pm

Do not fit both nuts, lock washer or axle end plate, but only the first nut snugged up then fill the opening with a shop towel to stop dirt & dust & do no more.
That is until the axle assy's are fitted to the vehicle & you can install the wheels.
When the wheels are installed & torqued....adjust the spindle nuts tightly [in turn] to ensure the bearings are seated properly then back well off & slowly tighten again until when the wheel when gripped @ the top & bottom then rocked in & out exhibits no movement, you might want to back off 1 castellation fit the lock washer, lock nut & bend the lockwasher over the outer lock nut....NOTICE THE HUB POSITION WHERE YOU MUST LEVER AGAINST
John, really sorry, maybe you can explain this differently please? I do not get what you are trying to convey.

In the photo of setting the locking washer, is that an 11" auto wrench with the spoon end?

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Re: Axle Drums

Post by nick peters » Tue Jan 31, 2012 4:58 pm

Ray
Im out in Australia and dont have a manual with me for the feeler gauge size THe diagram on the previous post pretty well explains the set up. But usually the cams have punch marks not arrows. Im sure someone will post the feeler gauge size. The drums should all pretty much set up the same. providing your drums are true round :roll:
good luck
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Re: Axle Drums

Post by Joe Gopan » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:00 pm

There is no "castellation" on the wheel bearing nuts, they are all "Hex Nuts".
As you adjust and back them off the drive flange holes make a good reference to the required 1/6 turn when backing the inner nut off. With experience you will learn to back them not quite 1/6th turn and to leave a slight preload.
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Re: Axle Drums

Post by artificer » Tue Jan 31, 2012 5:28 pm

John, really sorry, maybe you can explain this differently please? I do not get what you are trying to convey.
In the photo of setting the locking washer, is that an 11" auto wrench with the spoon end?
Don't adjust the bearings fully until the axle housings including hubs & wheels are mounted on the vehicle....until then you only need the thick washer & 1st hub nut fitted & exclude dirt, from the bearings, however you wish.

When on the vehicle adjust the bearings as described [with wheels on] using nut 1 & if you want, back off ONE hex edge [1/6th], fit the lockwasher & locknut [do not over tighten otherwise you can twist off the lockwasher lock tab that engages the spindle].

I used a 24" tyre iron in the pic but a good quality "heavy" screwdriver will do the job....note where the lever is working on the hub....think, then you tell me [& others] why you don't lever anywhere else on the hub.

There is absolutely no reason to use feeler gauges to adjust Jeep brakes [that is why I posted the EZ way] & many repro drums/hubs have no feeler slots.

Arrows, indentations, dots or crosses....they all indicate the same thing i.e. the shoes are fully retracted when these indicators are in the correct position.
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TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Axle Drums

Post by RayTay23 » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:05 pm

I'm glad I hopped back on and looked before I started working again. I am actually putting the rolling chassis together this weekend (waiting on spring plates to arrive in next day or 2). So I covered up the hubs in the meantime and only have the first washer/nut as depicted in my pic. I will take a stab at all of this on Friday/Saturday once I get the axles on the frame. So I guess my next adventure will be installing the springs on the frame in order to mount the axles to the springs. I will try and keep my spring questions to a minimum on this Axle Drum help thread come this weekend, though it will all be worked at the same time! So any advance precautions or advice on installing the the spring bolts or shackle U-bolts/bushings (LH thread vs RH thread) would be appreciated from you experienced guys.

The brake instructions you provided look super easy to follow. Thanks John

Hopefully some of you will be checking over the weekend in case I need weekend overtime pay emergency G503 Forum help!
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Re: Axle Drums

Post by artificer » Tue Jan 31, 2012 7:33 pm

the shoes are fully retracted when these indicators are in the correct position.
Correct position is [whether bottom major adjustment anchors or top minor adjuster cams] the dots or arrows or indentations will be adjacent or closest to one another.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Axle Drums

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Feb 01, 2012 5:57 am

If positioning the marks of the brake adjusting eccentrics and anchor pins were all that is necessary, the job would be simple, but it is not, when the brakes are properly adjusted these marks do not face each other due to variations in wear and drum diameter.
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Re: Axle Drums

Post by artificer » Wed Feb 01, 2012 10:47 am

Obviously if one follows the simple instructions in the diagram given the marks refered to will not necessarily be facing each other after adjustment is completed. @ the starting point they should be though....there always must be someone trying to confuse the issue, DUH.
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TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Axle Drums

Post by lt.luke » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:02 am

Thanks John. You are not proposing that the 2nd nut is installed with the weight of the vehicle on the axles though, right? Is this a "Full Floating Axle" specific thing? Bearing adjustment on the other type axles/hubs cannot be completed with the wheel etc mounted, so I'm not used to doing it that way, and thereby, confused. I'll confess here, that my front and one side of the back are completely assembled and ready to hang on the springs. If I didn't, I'll loose parts!

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Re: Axle Drums

Post by artificer » Wed Feb 01, 2012 11:14 am

Yes, fully floating front of all jeeps [most heavy 4wd vehicles] & rear axles, until they changed to the semi floating rear axles on later model jeeps.

Semi floating axles are adjusted in a totally different way....sometimes using shims as one is bolting & securing the axle & bearing to the axle housing. One measures axle end float with a dial guage on these later models or with experience, feel.
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Axle Drums

Post by zepher11 » Thu Feb 02, 2012 7:06 pm

Great thread with a lot of great information. I will soon be at this stage of my project and it is nice to see your progress. And I would like to say that your detail work on your GPW project is superb! Keep up the good work. I'm happy to have learned a great deal from you post and the great follow up advice.

Regards,
Zeph

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Re: Axle Drums

Post by RayTay23 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:39 am

Hey Guys,

I'm trying to get these axles mounted to the frame today. I'm attempting to install the springs to the frame. I'm looking in the manual to see where the Spring Shackles go. I cannot find anything that tells you info on them. I have the ones that are Right hand thread on one end and Left hand thread on the other. Only 2 of them are like that, right? Or is it all 4 of them? Which corners do they go on? Also, which side goes up, Left or Right hand thread?
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Re: Axle Drums

Post by RayTay23 » Sat Feb 04, 2012 7:58 am

RayTay23 wrote:Hey Guys,

I'm trying to get these axles mounted to the frame today. I'm attempting to install the springs to the frame. I'm looking in the manual to see where the Spring Shackles go. I cannot find anything that tells you info on them. I have the ones that are Right hand thread on one end and Left hand thread on the other. Only 2 of them are like that, right? Or is it all 4 of them? Which corners do they go on? Also, which side goes up, Left or Right hand thread?
FYI, just to be clear, I know where the spring shackles go. My question is just which corners to the RH/LH threaded ones go on if there are only 2. Then, which side goes through the spring and which side goes through the frame bracket. LH or RH thread?
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