Help with noise please.

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.
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Chuck Lutz
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Re: Help with noise please.

Post by Chuck Lutz » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:29 pm

Richard...I think we can all agree that with that amount of metal in the GO that you have a major problem in the tcase....having said that, did you isolate the NOISE to the tcase or not?

I would hate to take it out, rebuild it, put it back in and then...find the noise was still there on a test drive....so you have probably found the problem but you have an opportunity to simply put that cover back on and fill the tcase and attempt to isolate that noise before completing the rebuild and ending up with the same noises....

Confirm the tcase is the culprit and then you can proceed knowing the noise will likely not be there once it is rebuilt.

I'll bet the caged roller bearings, intermediate shaft wear is excessive and the gear there is wearing out everything due to this alone...I would also say that you will have to determine if everything in that tcase needs to be replaced because of this problem or....if just the intermediate shaft and roller bearings will be enough or if that gear or...if the rest will have to be replaced.

That kind of diagnoses is really tough online unless the internals are so far gone it is a no-brainer to replace EVERYTHING in that tcase.
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Re: Help with noise please.

Post by Armyspecial » Tue Jul 19, 2011 1:33 pm

Yes I will isolate before I pull anything. I have a second Transfer Box that I will rebuild and use.
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Re: Help with noise please.

Post by artificer » Tue Jul 19, 2011 2:32 pm

intermediate shaft wear is excessive and the gear there is wearing out
I suggest dropping the intermediate gear replacing the shaft [there are crap ones around] & rollers plus side thrust bushes....[possibly where the screeching noise is coming from] flush out, re-assemble, re-oil & go for a run.
All that can be done without separating the gearbox & transfer case. With some perseverance in & an hour or two.
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TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Help with noise please.

Post by Armyspecial » Tue Jul 19, 2011 11:02 pm

Are you both suggesting this can be done with Transfer Box in situ or am i mis-reading?

What about the movement i'm getting from the Output Shaft gear or is that being exagerated by the movement from the Intermediate gear?
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Re: Help with noise please.

Post by Armyspecial » Wed Jul 20, 2011 2:24 am

Gindi,

Just what i needed....thank you.

I will need to dertimine whether the wear is in the shaft or the gears or would you suggest i replace what i remove anyway?

Bearings and thrust washers i will replace automatically.

Thanks

Richard
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Re: Help with noise please.

Post by Joe Gopan » Wed Jul 20, 2011 6:44 pm

It is very important when examining the Transfer case rear output shaft to examine the bushing, A-987, in the front where the pilot for the front output shaft fits into. if worn, and they usually are, it contributes to excess play and noise.
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Re: Help with noise please.

Post by Armyspecial » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:09 am

Ok, removed the Intermediate shaft today and this is what i found.

1. Shaft - Badly worn i two places so clearly needs replacing.

2. Thurst washers - worn both on the internal face (contact with the bearings) and the brass? face in one area only. The wear on the inside of one washer has almost worn through to the other side.

Are these normal wear patterns? (Ignore damaged internal lug on one washer as i cuaght this during removal of the shaft.

3. Intermedite Gear - Seems ok. No wear on the inside and just slight ridges on the faces that contact the Thrust washers. Is this ok?

4. Bearings - Not shown but some rollers have worn/flaking surface, same as the shaft, so will be replaced.

I am struggling to remove the main shaft. I have removed rear bearing cap, shifted into 4WD and low range. Am trying to lever out the main shaft but it's not moving. Have i missed something of any tips on how to do this?

The last photo shows a broken tooth on A989 so assume this must be replaced? Nothing else to report with the main shaft, only play between Gear A988 and splines of main shaft (side to side). Is this normal?

Thanks

Richard

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Re: Help with noise please.

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Jul 30, 2011 5:39 am

This was suspected from the start as you reported that the transfer has had 20 years of operation and it was obviously in unknown condition from the start.

The Instructions in TM9-1803B beginning on Page 24 are easy to follow. There are other manuals that are for later models of this Transfer that have additional instruction and when combined with TM9-1803B, make the task of servicing the Transfer case much easier to understand. They are; SM-1002, the Willys Service Manual for the Universal Jeep, and TM9-8015-2, ORDNANCE MAINTENANCE for the M-38A1 Powertrain. I have combined the use of these manuals for years as the combined reference contained in them compliment each other.
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Re: Help with noise please.

Post by Joe Gopan » Sat Jul 30, 2011 7:44 am

You will also discover the bushing, A-987, in Shaft A-1764 to be worn out, it also is another source of noise when worn.
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Re: Help with noise please.

Post by Armyspecial » Sun Sep 04, 2011 10:14 am

Well.....its gone!!

Shall never know if it was the Transfer Case or the rear prop shaft as both have been rebuilt/replaced, but very happy this problem is dealt with. It was a good oppertunity to do some much needed maintenance including replacing my leaking rear Pinion seal and installing a double sealed mainshaft bearing to stop the gear oil migration from box to box.

Missed all the good weather though!!

Thanks all for your help and patience.

Richard
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Re: Help with noise please.

Post by GEOFF TURNER » Sun Sep 04, 2011 1:24 pm

Hey Richard,

Glad you have solved the problem. I have a similar problem and I'm about to investigate. I have been following this post with great interest.

Where did you end up getting your parts?

Regards

Geoff
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Re: Help with noise please.

Post by Armyspecial » Mon Sep 05, 2011 12:13 am

Geoff,

I use Nick Jeffery. All his parts are normally really good.

Try and get NOS internals for your TC, Hotchkiss parts are really good quality and the fit is perfect.

Dont mess about replacing the mainshaft bushing, replace the whole shaft. A NOS WOF shaft is £35 from Nick.

Rebuild is quite straightforward. You WILL need a converted axe head tool to get to the mainshaft snap ring when taking it apart, and Geoff Capes to lift the TC back onto the Jeep!!!

Gindi......very true. So much better then paying someone to do it. This, like all the other jobs i have attempted on my Jeep, turn out to be much more straightforward then you think its going to be!!

Cheers

Richard
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Re: Help with noise please.

Post by Armyspecial » Tue Jul 18, 2017 1:59 am

Noise is back........... :cry: :cry: :cry: :cry:
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42 Ford GPW 52726 Hood No 20132506 (Actual) DOD 4TH AUG 42 (Ex NAAS Oceana)
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Re: Help with noise please.

Post by artificer » Tue Jul 18, 2017 8:07 am

I did not read back through any of this but....
How many km?
Exactly the same noise?
Drain oils & check for metal particles....then possibly
John wrote: intermediate shaft wear is excessive
I suggest dropping the intermediate gear replacing the shaft [there are crap ones around] & rollers plus side thrust bushes....[possibly where the screeching noise is coming from] flush out, re-assemble, re-oil & go for a run.
All that can be done without separating the gearbox & transfer case. With some perseverance in & an hour or two.[/quote]
John GIBBINS Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mech NSW MVIC 49593 Current 2015
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
Understand how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.

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Re: Help with noise please.

Post by Armyspecial » Sun Aug 06, 2017 11:26 pm

I believe this is the source of the problem.

As you can see, handbrake drum has movement, and it's whilst coasting the drum is effectively loose and causing a noise. You can also move the drum up and down when stationary.

A good friend has suggested incorrect shim pack so I will remove everything and adjust.

Relieved I think I've finally found it!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4KJpTh8wSZM
44 Ford GPW 197755 REME Rebuild - British No 53 YH 48 Hood No M6015520 (Actual)
42 Ford GPW 52726 Hood No 20132506 (Actual) DOD 4TH AUG 42 (Ex NAAS Oceana)
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