External brake

1941 - 1945, MB, GPW Technical questions and discussions, regarding anything related to the WWII jeep.

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External brake

Postby Myers » Mon May 09, 2011 4:54 pm

Alright, I've poured over all the pictures/diagrams I can find, to no avail. I'm trying to mount the External brake onto my GPW, and I can't seem to figure out how to get the drum on. I've got the linkage hooked up no problem, but I can't figure out how to mount the drum.

Does it mount on the rear dif or transfercase side of the output flange? If it mounts on the transfercase side, how do you keep the bolt heads from spinning while tightening it up?

Boone Myers
"My head hurts"
3-16-43 Ford GPW (SN 102820)
5-4-45 Bantam T3
1945 Converto Dump
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Re: External brake

Postby Ben Dover » Mon May 09, 2011 5:11 pm

It goes (the drum) on before the Companion Flange is installed, note that the bolt heads still have an edge to grab. Use fresh bolts with clean threads and put a bit of grease or oil on the threads for ease of installing/removing the nuts. If you do not have the original bolts, The Parts manuals call for A-6084 Bolts which have a smooth shoulder at the drum area and are 3/8" NF X 1-3/8" Long. Not sure if you can get by with 1-1/4" length, but 1-1/2" Long will work. Use GRADE 8 for this installation.
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Re: External brake

Postby artificer » Mon May 09, 2011 5:35 pm

Use fresh bolts with clean threads and put a bit of grease or oil on the threads for ease of installing/removing the nuts.
Use locktite product which will "glue the bolts & head in place then let it set properly.
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TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
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Re: External brake

Postby Jon » Mon May 09, 2011 6:36 pm

Did I miss anything ?

Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Image
Jon Rogers
AUSTRALIA


http://jeepdraw.com JeepDraw Home Page & Drawings
Parts Colours Page http://jeepdraw.com/PART_COLOURS.html" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
1944 GPW195611 20531384 ACM-2 17781
1942 MBT 19433W
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Re: External brake

Postby Myers » Mon May 09, 2011 8:39 pm

Perfect, thanks for all the tips/pictures!

Thanks!

Boone Myers
3-16-43 Ford GPW (SN 102820)
5-4-45 Bantam T3
1945 Converto Dump
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Re: External brake

Postby Ben Dover » Tue May 10, 2011 4:48 am

[quote="artificer"][quote]Use fresh bolts with clean threads and put a bit of grease or oil on the threads for ease of installing/removing the nuts.[/quote] Use locktite product which will "glue the bolts & head in place then let it set properly.[/quote]

John, this will not work, there is no glue in the world that will hold these bolts in place.
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Re: External brake

Postby hatchetdan » Tue May 10, 2011 12:54 pm

I just did this sunday, the drum needs to be clear inside as possible, insert the flange into position as shown in the pics, then put the bolts in from the inside of the drum, you will see how the lip of the flange inside the drum will catch the edge of the bolt head to keep it from spinning as you tighten the nuts. you then slide the flange on to the splines, holding the bolts in place in place with your fingers, when it is all the way in the bolts will woble around but should not fall out, then you put on the ujoint assembly , if you have thin fingers you can push the bolts out so you can nut them.
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Re: External brake

Postby dantheman » Tue May 10, 2011 1:53 pm

From what you all are describing, mine sounds different. I put my drum back on the transfercase this weekend as well, but it appeared to have studs in the drum, not bolts. They were certainly not loose at all. We are talking about the four bolts/studs that the rear u joint flange mounts to, correct? Mine seem to be pressed in, almost like wheel lugs and have round heads. It is the drum for the external contracting bang type brake and was pretty original looking to the f script transefercase it came off of. Do I have something different?
-Daniel Newsome

Living History Association of Cabarrus (LHAC)
1945 GPW 267188 (numbers matching)
Will work for GPW parts :)
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Re: External brake

Postby artificer » Tue May 10, 2011 3:23 pm

Joel incorrectly said: John, this will not work, there is no glue in the world that will hold these bolts in place.
Not everyone uses ex GI 1940's & 50's era gasket cement & shelac.
Time to get with the times & try something new old fella. I've done this dozens of times & it works for moi.
Dan said: They were certainly not loose at all. We are talking about the four bolts/studs that the rear u joint flange mounts to, correct? Mine seem to be pressed in, almost like wheel lugs and have round heads.
Possibly original? or after market, I have only seen hex head.

The drum is on the inside of the flange & closest to the t/f case housing.
As Hatchetdan described it can be done but it can be painful.
Here is how to go:
The flange is off the vehicle RIGHT?
Fit the drum to the inside of the flange then fit the bolts using the locking material you choose http://au.iloctite.com/upload/media/media/18/P_20_21[488].pdf
....even super glue will work fine, use acetone or nail polish remover to clean....
With a couple of washers on each bolt (to cover the smooth bolt shank), ensure adhesive is not on threads or the outside of the flange @ all, then tighten the nuts on all 4 of the bolts & let the adhesive set..
Fit the flange/drum to the transfer case output shaft spline using the appropriate sealant on the internal & external splines & using grease on the seal plus its mating surface on the flange.
Ensure there is @ least 1/8"or 3mm tighten up space (crush) between the end of the transmission output spline & where the washer will sit in the flange under the nut after the flange is pushed right home.
Then fill this void space with silicon, fit the smooth washer & torque the nut to 220#lb. Clean off squashed out compound.
There are some "new" bad flanges which are too short & will not exhibit this necessary 'crush" aspect. DON'T USE THEM.
A few hours later or next day remove these 4 nuts & washers, fit up the drive shaft carefully & refit the 4 nuts this time with spring washers to 35#lb then connect the other drive shaft end to the differential.
John GIBBINS
Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mechanic NSW MVIC 49593....Current
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
One needs a basic understanding of how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be systematically established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
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Re: External brake

Postby Ben Dover » Tue May 10, 2011 4:07 pm

There is sufficient room to hold the head of each bolt against the inside edge of theCompanion Flange with the finger tips, there is sufficent shoulder on the Companion Flange where it enters thru the Parking Brake Drum to catch the flats of the bolts and prevent them from turning. (It was designed this way). If the bolts threads are clean and oiled, this is all that is necessary for easy installation and removal. There is no need to glue the bolts in place and wait overnight. The installation and tightening of the propeller Shaft to this flange is about a 20 minute job if all goes well. Jeep mechanics have been doing this simple procedure for 70 years with ease. There are times when the bolt threads are rusty or dirty, and the bolt heads may want to slide in a bit, a 9/16" Open End wrench can just fit in enough to assist in holding the stubborn bolts.
The original A-6084 Bolts have a fitting shoulder apprximately 13/16" long and are a snug fit where they pass thru the drum and flange, regular bolts may fit looser, but glue is not necessary. I always kept a supply of NOS A-6084 Bolts on hand for this very task on MB thru CJ Jeeps.
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Re: External brake

Postby artificer » Tue May 10, 2011 5:23 pm

To arrive at the simplest truth requires years of contemplation [which is not taught @ jeep mechanic academy.]" Isaac Newton
"I am looking for people who have an infinite capacity to not know what can’t be done." Henry Ford.

hatchetdan & the only "real" jeep mechanic still around have both told us the hard way to do things [it will work]....I have suggested the easy way from my experience, given detailed explanation & hope that has been helpful to some.
John GIBBINS
Member Institute of Automotive Mechanical Engineers [Ret], ASE Master Medium/Heavy Truck & Auto Technician USA -2002 Licensed Motor Mechanic NSW MVIC 49593....Current
TO DIAGNOSE, TROUBLESHOOT OR FAULT FIND ANY AUTO SYSTEM....
One needs a basic understanding of how system parts interact with one another. GOOD parts can then be systematically established & the NOT GOOD problem/s part/s isolated for repair or replacement.
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Re: External brake

Postby Ben Dover » Wed May 11, 2011 6:50 am

And Boone, let me know if you need the A-6084 Bolts for the Companion Flange,I will send you 4 NOS..
MVPA MEMBER 1064, 2011 MVPA PIONEER AWARD
HONOR GRAD-WHEELED VEHICLE MECHANIC SCHOOL 1960 - US ARMY ORDNANCE SCHOOL(MACHINIST) ABERDEEN PG 1962 - O-1 BIRD DOG CREWCHIEF - 69 NONSTOP YEARS BY THE BOOK ARMY TRUCK and MILITARY JEEP EXPERIENCE, 300,000+ M-38A1 MILES
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Re: External brake

Postby Myers » Wed May 11, 2011 9:29 am

Alright, well after toying with it for an hour or so I finally got it mounted. The bolts were originals, and the lip on the flange held all the bolts from turning except one. I disconected the driveshaft from the rear diff and was able to turn the brake drum so I could get a wrench through to hold the bolt head while I tightend the nut. Everything seems to work fine, so now I just need to get an e-brake cable and hook it up to my brake handle. Thanks again for the tips, I'll have to post some pictures later.

Boone Myers
3-16-43 Ford GPW (SN 102820)
5-4-45 Bantam T3
1945 Converto Dump
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Re: External brake

Postby dantheman » Wed May 11, 2011 8:31 pm

After second thought, I may be wrong. I was just going from memory, and I think maybe they were just fused together after all these years. I know that the flange (the part that has the splines and mounts on the transfer case rear output shaft) was firmly attached to the drum as well as the four bolts. The F marked case I rebuilt came from AZ and was very rusty, so I blasted all the parts and had the drum turned at the NAPA in town to make sure it was true. Perhaps someone else already had the super glue idea 8) Anyway, glad you got yours mounted and working Myers!
-Daniel Newsome

Living History Association of Cabarrus (LHAC)
1945 GPW 267188 (numbers matching)
Will work for GPW parts :)
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